“PD? Now no thanks. This management is not an interlocutor for us. They have denied themselves… Yes to Bersani ”: he declared it Chiara HangersM5s exponent and former mayor of Turin, during the third and last evening of TPI Festthe party of The Post Internazionale, which for the first time is held right in the capital of Emilia-Romagna, at the Tettoia Nervi alla Bolognina, in the newly inaugurated Piazza Lucio Dalla.
There was a tough battle between Conte and Renzi over citizenship income. How do you approach Conte’s theme and words?
“I would like to dispel a myth: income is not born as an electoral tool, as a proposal for the south. It was born (and we did not invent it, but it has existed for years in Europe) because we have to reverse the thought. We live in a country where if you are poor it is your fault. We blame the poor. And Renzi, having seen her words, thinks so. Citizenship income saved 1 million people from absolute poverty. In a civilized country these people help them, accompany them, give them a minimum subsidy to give them a little dignity. When I hear that income is electoral propaganda, I say that it is an instrument of a dignified country that has the courage to help its citizens who have no work. There is no work. Two out of three earners are not able to work. They are not people who do not want to work … And then there is another third who works and does not earn enough. I am proud to be part of a political force that has introduced the Citizenship Income ”.
Giuseppe Conte said: “Come unescorted to Sicily to say that the income is not needed”. Do you share these words?
“I have lived with the escort for many years. I know what it means. There is a real theme: it is one thing to talk on TV and say let’s take away the income, it is another thing to say it by looking at the people who experience difficulties every day in the face ”.
Isn’t that a violent way of putting yourself in the electoral campaign?
“I see violence in demanding and asking to remove the subsidy from people in difficulty. Violence not physical, but moral “.
Does the M5S have to go it alone today and in the future?
“If you ask me today if I see the M5s allied with Letta, I will tell you no”.
Never again with the PD?
“This management is not an interlocutor for us. They have denied themselves… ”.
Didn’t it make sense to keep the alliance alive to go to government?
“I have no problem saying it: I feel comfortable on a progressive front. In Piedmont we have an important municipality where we govern with the PD, but alliances are not made at all costs. For example, I still don’t understand how Letta and Calenda can be together… It’s about sitting down at the table one day and seeing if there is a common path but on the facts. The facts matter. ready to dialogue with those who make the facts. Today this dialogue does not exist ”.
Regasifiers. You spoke of two types: definitive and temporary. What is the future that awaits us on this issue?
“The emergency is also dictated by the fact that 15 years ago people did not believe in renewables. We must make ourselves as autonomous as possible on the supply. The PNRR can help us in this regard. But there is another issue that is rarely talked about: we have to work a lot on consumption. I still don’t understand why Draghi thwarted our 110 bonus which helps to consume less energy… Drills? No, they destroy our seas ”.
Has Grillo’s role in the Movement been downsized? Yes or no?
“Grillo has done our entire journey and is now working well with Conte. A beautiful path of renewal is underway “.
Was it bulky in the past? An obstacle?
“There was a moment of tension with Conte, but I never saw him as an obstacle. They are two different people who are working together. We are evolving for the better ”.
What do you think of Russian funding for some parties in Europe?
“I have read the news, I have no more information. Clarity is needed as soon as possible. Copasir is doing this. Beyond the elections, everything must be thoroughly clarified. I hope our country is not involved “
You have been allies of the League, the Democratic Party and finally the Draghi government. Because on Draghi he is cautious. What do you think?
“I’m not careful. I think Draghi has experienced our presence with impatience, which put important issues on the plate for our country. Still chairman of the board in the future? No thank you. That’s enough”.
So his general opinion? Positive or not?
“I tell you: the government I liked the most is Government 2. I didn’t like the last part of the Draghi government. We left… We joined the executive and had the ministry for ecological transition inserted, which then was not exactly in line with us. Cingolani does not seem so close to us of the 5 stars. I hope the next government continues to have this ministry. The point, however, is how you work. What are you doing”.
Politically, do you feel you can claim the fall of the Draghi government?
“We didn’t think: let’s bring down the government. What was our function? What we did in there. We take on a bit of responsibility but we did it in the interest of the social issues we had pursued ”.
What do you think about the subject of abortion?
“Meloni plays with words on a fundamental theme. Today the problem is not the right not to have an abortion, it is the right to have an abortion. There are structures without non-objecting doctors in our country… Meloni scares me on this issue as well as on prevention and education in schools ”.
The live streaming, “we will open the building like a can of tuna”, cohesive movement and then the split. What is your credibility password today?
“Poor Bersani, we treated him very badly. I have lived through all the phases of the movement. I think it has changed profoundly today. We will be foolish not to learn from our mistakes. And we did it. Today we are structuring ourselves, a step forward. What do I see in the movement? I see a movement that is recovering its social function which in any case has never lost in the various governments, the fight against insecurity, the environment … Being environmentalists does not always bring votes eh … “.
Will you have to establish a dialogue with the left sooner or later or not?
“I have esteem for Bersani. He is a person with whom I would like my movement to dialogue. I don’t have a foreclosure for the PD in general, but for what the PD is expressing today. Calenda? He is obsessed with us… “.
In your opinion, who are the reliable men of the current leadership of the PD?
“It’s not a question you can ask me… I can tell you that if the PD came back to the facts, I don’t think there would be any obstacles to dialogue. We have been arriving for months in which they have denied themselves. Something happened… Can we reconsider after September 25th? We see. Let’s see the real themes. The facts “.
What was your relationship with Zingaretti?
“Zingaretti I met him quickly but I can say that the Conte-Zingaretti dialogue worked”.
Born yes or no?
“Conte was clear. He maintains, and I agree, that our location is not in question but the issue is how you place yourself in the location. For example, it was not easy to obtain the NRRR with other countries. Conte was there and fought. This is what we must do ”.
What do you think of Calenda?
“He talks about the government with Draghi who said he doesn’t want to do it. Are you talking about broad agreements? We will certainly not be there ”.
Raggi and Di Battista?
“Virginia had enormous courage”.
But where is it now? Do you keep it hidden?
“No, Conte campaigned for you. Virginia is part of the Movement, Alessandro did not want to run for clear reasons. I hope he wants to come back when and if he shares our positions. Maybe he will come back. Di Maio? You made a different choice, I did many things with him and I don’t deny them. I don’t understand the choice and I don’t think there will be a rapprochement ”.
How much does the 5 Star Movement have to do to be successful and with whom will never again?
“I will never give a percentage. Hope we do well. Never in life with Brothers of Italy. With the League? No, we gave… “.
Do you see yourself as the leader of the M5s?
“No, Giuseppe is fine”.
Is the press in Italy free?
“There are publishers who have a role in their newspaper. This isn’t just about the Gedi group, it’s a general theme. If I see how some newspapers have treated Raggi and how Gualtieri treated today… Two weights and two measures… It seems objective to me ”.
TPI FEST 2022
The party of The International Post this year he arrives in Bologna, from Thursday 15th to Saturday 17th September 2022, at the “Tettoia Nervi”, in Piazza Lucio Dalla, in the beating heart of the historic Bolognina district.
Three evenings, three different themes: 1. The social agenda of the country; 2. The Right in power ?; 3. A new vision of the world. All this within a few days of the political elections of 25 September. An important moment to discuss ideas.
Numerous guests: from the former secretary of the Democratic Party Nicola Zingaretti to the leader of the 5 Star Movement Giuseppe Conteby the governor of Emilia-Romagna Stefano Bonaccini to the former mayor of Turin Chiara Hangers.
The slogan of the TPI Fest è: Get an idea. Yours. The cultural event is sponsored by the Municipality of Bologna and is free and with free admission. The event is also an opportunity to celebrate together the first anniversary of the birth of our weekly The International Post.
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