Genoa – While Giovanni Toti he speaks, in his office on the fourth floor of the building in Piazza De Ferrari, the walls reverberate. They are not the cannon fire from the Aurora cruiser, but the New Year's Eve rehearsals in the square on Canale 5. The governor is not upset, he is also used to friendly fire, like that of those who would like to end their experience as president of Liguria after two terms , in 2025.
“The question is poorly posed – he replies – I have given my availability, but the issue is to consolidate the work done and the centre-right government in this region”. As for openings for a return under the aegis of Forza Italia, Toti relaunches: «After the passing of the Cavaliere, his legacy cannot be limited to a few percentage points. To recover the diaspora of liberals, popular and reformists, a true constituent phase should open, with everyone under discussion.”
President Toti, Giorgio Mulé invites you to think about a future as a minister and leave Liguria.
«I thank my friend Mulé but I am easily able to find a job outside of politics. But I believe that the issue of my possible third mandate is poorly posed: the point is to guarantee continuity of government in Liguria in five years, between 2025 and 2030, in which some decisive works will be completed, I am thinking of the Dam or the Third Crossing . I remember that in 2015 the center-right governed 35% of this region and now it is over 80% and this is possible because there is an alliance that is made up of 50% by traditional parties and 50% by a civic soul and moderate. Votes that we cannot lose: in the next few years there will be an important verification of the work done, the mayors of Genoa, Spezia, Imperia will go to vote… I have given my availability, then there are still two years to go and for this reason it is too early to talk about it.”
However, the issue has emerged at a national level and is causing the government parties to argue.
«Here there would not be a legislative issue but a political one, because we have changed the electoral law and therefore it would be Toti's second mandate. I understand that at a national level there are different opinions between Forza Italia, FdI and the League, I hope that the rules will change, but in any case it seems to me that both FdI and the League have already expressed themselves clearly here.”
How do you judge the doors open to a possible return to Forza Italia?
«I appreciate the open doors, but I should hear a key turning in the lock, something that has been missing so far. 2023 is a year that changed Italian politics: after the death of the Knight, Berlusconi's dream is represented by an area that is much larger than Forza Italia. I hope that the legacy of that name, with the support of the family with whom I cultivate excellent relationships, will lead to building a true constituent phase. A path that recovers the souls of the popular, liberal, reformist diaspora. We must not have congresses and membership cards but open assemblies and everyone must question themselves. I wish Forza Italia good luck but Berlusconi's legacy cannot be pigeonholed into a few percentage points.”
How do you read the vote on the ESM politically?
«That affair crystallized something that was clear: FdI and Lega are the driving part and the forces that refer to the European People's Party are the minority part, the relationship was reversed after 25-30 years. After that I don't criticize Forza Italia for its abstention, it was obliged to avoid opening a crisis in the government.”
You also raised the question of the reform of the premiership which does not harmonize with local realities.
«A reform that introduces a strong prime minister who can potentially be re-nominated forever clashes with a veto on the mandates of mayors and governors. There should be the same conditions. The combination of constitutional reforms with autonomy leads to a German model with a strong prime minister and strong regional autonomies, it seems to me to be the right direction.”
For the leadership of Confindustria, a Ligurian challenge between Garrone and Gozzi is looming, what do you think?
«It is the confirmation of a regained centrality in the country's political and economic debate. They are two Ligurians who embody two successful companies, both capable and rooted in this territory, what I hope is that we reach a synthesis and do not damage each other, which has sometimes happened in Liguria.”
However, at an industrial policy level, they accuse it of not having an impact on the former Ilva affair.
«The matter was opened by a commissioner of the Renzi government, passed through the governments of Gentiloni, Conte I and II, Draghi with Orlando minister of labor and it would be Toti's fault?».
Despite the controversy, what is the solution for you?
«Let's not go back to state shareholdings, we need clarification: to understand if there is still a marriage between the State and Mittal, otherwise it's better to say goodbye. We can return to the State on a provisional basis, but to direct towards other industrial partners in a medium-term path. It is up to the government to indicate a path. Indeed, we in Genoa have shown generosity because relocating a thousand workers on a very attractive area of one million square meters would also be feasible. But steel is strategic for the entire country.”
Like gas?
“The attitude is the same: a region that lives on logistics, services and tourism cannot be selfish.”
However, if the government were to turn to another destination it would take the chestnuts out of the fire: in the Savona area the project has sparked widespread protests.
«I don't worry about the chestnuts in Toti's fire. Everyone had objections to the survey on the regasification terminal: I have no difficulty recognizing that in the area concerned the sentiment it is against it but if we analyze it on a broader territory we understand that the objective is a priority of the country. It must be made clear that – despite the risks that do not exist, as demonstrated by the Panigaglia plant – everyone must make their contribution. We are not carrying out emergency procedures like Tuscany and Emilia, there is a national EIA commission that will express its opinion and then the services conference will restart. Is the Democratic Party the one that pays attention to industrial policies or the one that creates human chains on the beach?”.
Another plant that will cause discussion: the waste-to-energy plant. Have you read the self-candidacy of the mayor of Genoa?
«The closure of the waste cycle is foreseen by regional law: two biodigesters are needed to manage the wet fraction and the dry residue has two routes, either a Waste to chemical plant or a waste-to-energy plant, both of which provide energy. Where will we put it? There is a regional agency that will do all the evaluations with the provinces, I note that Mayor Bucci is once again capable of deciding: similar systems exist in Munich and Copenhagen.”
Healthcare: 7.4 million allocated to purchase services from private individuals, couldn't the public system have been strengthened?
«In the budget, the budget for public health increases, not decreases. The problem of public health is not the lack of money but of professionals and flexibility: all our companies have open and partly empty tenders. We have hired thousands of nurses and health workers. We need a structural reform of healthcare that deals with professional figures and salaries.”
Another contested amendment: the extension of intramoenia activity in private structures. Why?
«Precisely for this reason we gave the possibilities we had to liberalize and encourage professionals to work here. What we lack is the quantity of services and private individuals can help with this, we will have tenders for 50 million for the most requested services and we must push to support our companies with a private leg which in Liguria, I remember, has the lowest percentage of activity in Italy, less than in Tuscany or Emilia”.
Spending on territorial marketing is growing, but so are complaints about your campaigns: aren't you spending too much?
«We are third to last in Italy in terms of spending, let alone exaggerate: our predecessors had excluded tourism from European funds. The Calabria commercials ran in Sanremo. Today we are among the regions that are growing the most in terms of tourism and we are the first in terms of growth in GDP linked to culture. The Region's exports are also linked to image and all this is linked to territorial marketing: anyone who continues to say that that money should be put into healthcare deserves to go behind the blackboard. Supporting the GDP means being able to invest in services for citizens, as demonstrated by our maneuver with free nursery schools or train passes for under 19s, the 30 million on public housing…”.
Let's talk about dates: do you believe the Third Crossing will take place in 2026?
«The date is certain, net of the inconveniences that have never been lacking. Ditto for the first lot of the Dam.”
And will we see something of the hi-tech hospital in Erzelli by 2026?
«We are moving towards project financing which will allow us to shorten the timeframe and we imagine that we can start in 2026, as in Taggia. While the new Felettino will start in March 2024 and will be operational in three years, the same goes for the community houses.”
Genoa is the book capital, which is the last one you read? What does the Region do for Ligurian publishing?
«I'm reading the latest by Oscar Farinetti that he gave me at dinner, it's always full of interesting ideas. For the first time, Liguria will be a guest of the Book Fair with a significant investment and with our publishers on the team, we need to reverse the leitmotif that culture cannot be eaten.”
What are your hopes for 2024?
«That the dates and objectives that we have set are respected, which is not always easy. And let there be a little coal in the Befana stocking for those who offer alibis for not doing things, without indicating alternatives.”
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