The Belgian jurist and professor of international law Olivier De Schutter, 55, has been the United Nations (UN) special rapporteur on extreme poverty and human rights since 2020. He is an independent expert, who does not receive a salary from the organization, but whose mandate is to focus on the vulnerable population in a society that so often looks the other way. After participating last Tuesday in Madrid in the V European Congress against Poverty and defending the fight to eradicate social vulnerability as “the best way to strengthen democracy,” he spoke to EL PAÍS at the headquarters of the Once Foundation.
Ask. Have European countries recovered from the blow dealt them by the covid pandemic?
Answer. The impacts were cushioned thanks to the impressive support that countries received from the various European Union programs. A financial recovery and resilience mechanism known as Next Generation EU, endowed with 750,000 million euros, for all the Member States. Countries like Spain or Italy still benefit greatly from this aid, which allows them to support the population and companies to significantly mitigate the consequences of the pandemic, but this financing will end in 2026. Meanwhile, the public debt of many nations has increased considerably due to the loans requested. Therefore, in the coming years there will be a return to austerity policies and governments will make cuts in housing, education and health. Ultimately, the impact has so far been mitigated, but the real repercussions are yet to come.
Q. Did the war in Ukraine increase European poverty?
R. It caused a very high increase in energy and food prices in 2022. This inflation led the European Central Bank, the Bank of England and the Federal Reserve Board, in the United States, to increase interest rates. Consequently, debt financing costs increased and governments stopped financing public services, companies invested less and indebted households had to pay more. All this has consequences on the economy and poverty.
Q. The previous UN special rapporteur on extreme poverty and human rights, Philip Alston, said four years ago that the social protection system in Spain was broken. Since then, this country has approved new measures such as the increase in the minimum wage, the childhood supplement for vulnerable families with children or the Minimum Living Income. Do you think it is still broken today?
R. Spain has managed to progress. The introduction of the Minimum Living Income was really important, but, paradoxically, it is not protecting the most disadvantaged households because they are the ones who have the most difficulties accessing information, submitting the application on-line or to gather documentation. At the Gypsy Secretariat Foundation they told me this Tuesday that 79% of the Roma community, with the right to the Minimum Living Income, are not beneficiaries. There are numerous administrative obstacles. It is an important measure, but it could be a significant tool in the fight against poverty. Unfortunately, it does not work effectively for the most vulnerable people. In short, there have been improvements, although they are not enough. Spain’s high levels of child poverty are especially worrying, as is the low rate of public housing and the increase in home prices, which have increased significantly in recent years and are very high for citizens.
Q. Although poverty for the general population fell last year, it rose for families with children. And Spain has one of the highest risk rates of child poverty in the European Union. What is missing in the protection of minors?
R. I think we need to focus on expanding aid to children. Minors in situations of social vulnerability are imposed a life sentence for a crime they have not committed, they are not responsible for their situation. When you grow up in poverty it has a series of consequences in your future life. The children do not have good nutrition and live in overcrowded houses where it is difficult to study and do their homework. Therefore, they perform worse in school and have less income as adults. It is a penalty imposed on minors that has no justification. This issue should be important to governments.
Q. Do you defend the existence of a universal child-rearing benefit, which Spain does not yet have, unlike a large part of European countries?
R. The introduction of a universal subsidy for dependent children, a measure supported by the Minister of Social Rights, Consumption and Agenda 2030, Pablo Bustinduy, must be a priority. In addition, it can work better by greatly reducing the chances of the most vulnerable people being left without help. The more the requirements are limited to low-income households, the greater the risk of failed inclusion. This universal benefit would be an automatic concession, without complicated procedures or suspicions in case someone cheats.
Q. Although last year Spain reduced the gap with respect to the continent, it remains the fourth country in the European Union with the highest rate of population at risk of poverty. How would you define your situation with respect to Europe?
R. I think it is not especially useful to talk about these poverty rates in general, it is more important to analyze which groups are affected. Spain has a particular problem with single-parent families, mostly headed by women. The existing wage gap between both genders is a factor of poverty for them. There is also the situation of the Roma community. Many Roma live in settlements and children have high rates of early school leaving, which is the source of perpetuation of poverty between generations.
Q. Does poverty have a gender perspective?
R. Yes, the majority of single-parent households are headed by women and that is where poverty is concentrated, which is increasingly feminized. This explains the very high rates of child poverty.
Q. The Bank of Spain has warned that young people accumulate less and less wealth. How should they be protected? Is this country an exception in the European context?
R. Spain, like some other countries—especially in southern Europe—has a high proportion of unemployed young adults who neither study nor receive training. This carries a risk: that they are offered atypical, poorly paid, insecure and short-term contracts. Many low-paid jobs have been created in Germany to increase the employment rate. Paradoxically, there are also entrepreneurs unable to find sufficiently prepared professionals for certain sectors. There is a mismatch between the type of qualifications they have and the requirements of the labor market. Therefore, we must work on this discrepancy so that education meets the demands of the job market.
Q. In Spain there is a problem with housing. Unicef warns that its high costs lead to the vulnerability of 780,000 more minors in the country. Should rental prices be regulated?
R. I have not studied the housing situation in Spain sufficiently to comment on it in detail, but I can say that speculation in the real estate market has been very relevant in the country and the percentage of social housing is very limited compared to other territories. This is undoubtedly a sector in which, of course, more efforts must be made.
Q. How is energy poverty combated? 16.7% of Spanish households with children cannot maintain an adequate temperature during winter.
R. The ecological transition is essential to support people who are experiencing vulnerability. By requiring homeowners to insulate homes better, families reduce electricity bills and the risk of energy poverty.
Q. What situations and political decisions hinder poverty alleviation in Europe?
R. I think the main problem is tax competition between European Member States. Taxes on corporate income have been declining over the last 25 years in Europe. The most important obstacle that countries face in combating poverty is their inability to raise sufficient public revenue to finance social services and protection. There is no harmonized tax system in the European Union. As a result, all territories try to attract investments by lowering taxes on companies, there are even tax havens. The Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development has agreed on a minimum tax of 15% on business income, but this is a very low figure.
Q. What challenges does Europe face to improve this situation?
R. I believe that the efforts that countries are making to protect people from poverty should be exempt from the requirements imposed on them to reduce the public deficit. Governments should not choose between fighting social vulnerability or meeting the demands of the European Semester. They must be encouraged to invest more in reducing precariousness, but they are not making it easy for them. I am very concerned about this imbalance and the risk of austerity policies returning to Europe.
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