“Fossil fuels have been impregnated with racism since their inception,” he launches Andreas Malm (Mölndal, Sweden; 46 years), “they began to be used in the British Empire—which was itself a structure to dominate non-whites—and the British said that their steam engines were a sign of their supremacy in the world.” With these origins, he maintains, it is better understood that far-right parties combine hatred of foreigners with love for oil. To prove it, the writer, journalist and activist has just published in Spanish White skin, black fuel (Captain Swing), an essay that analyzes the relationship between extremist parties and the climate emergency. The professor of Human Ecology at the Lund University He is now researching climate change at New York University, the city from which he attends EL PAÍS by video call.
Ask. According to you, what is the link between fascism and fossil fuels?
Answer. Mussolini, Hitler and the German and Italian fascists were in love with advanced fossil fuel technologies: airplanes, cars… In Germany there were large reserves of coal and they did everything possible to exploit them to the maximum. This love for machines [contaminantes] He has remained on the extreme right, because he is in favor of techniques of domination of other people, such as those allowed by these machines.
Q. Most people understand that climate change exists. Why do they vote for deniers?
R. This is the greatest paradox. The current situation is different from when we wrote the book, because neither Bolsonaro nor Trump are already in power, although the latter could return in the coming months. If Trump comes back, it sounds like he will be more aggressive than the first time when it comes to denying climate change, giving fossil fuel companies whatever they want, and dismantling climate policies. And he would also be more aggressive toward non-white populations with his plans to deport 10 million people. And he says he’ll become dictator for a day so he can drill [pozos petroleros]. How is it possible that the craziest kind of climate denialism can once again be in charge of the United States? I think it has to do with the protection of privileges and an increasingly profound denial of what is happening in the world.
Q. Why do you consider the car to be an ideological machine?
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R. People who drive a lot tend to see the car as an integral part of who they are, because it allows them to move around and gives them that sense of individual freedom. In that sense, the car is a very effective ideological machine for creating this type of deep, almost libidinous bond with technology, where men almost respond with what Freudians would call “castration anxiety” at the idea of being deprive yourself of your car. This is deeply irrational, but can be understood as a psychic process where people have invested a lot in this object and have come to see it as part of themselves, as a powerful member of their bodies.
Q. What effect does the rise of far-right parties have on the fight against climate change?
R. Where the far right wins and governs, the climate loses: it always opposes climate policies, restrictions on fossil fuel consumption, emissions cuts, and tries to dismantle all kinds of limitations. So if we want to make progress on the climate emergency, we have to make sure the far right stays out of power. And the problem is that we could face another four-year term with Trump in the White House, who will likely abandon the Paris Agreement again and give a boost to these forces around the world. The timing is even worse than last time, because the climate crisis is more severe in 2024 than in 2016.
Q. In his book, he warns of the dangers of what he calls “fossil fascism.” I could arrive?
R. Yes. The United States is the main candidate in the short term because Trump has said that he will create “a dictatorship for a day” to be able to drill. And they have revealed that he has an agreement with Big Oil executives that if they fund his campaign he will give them everything they want and will make sure to eliminate all types of current climate policies. If you have this kind of violent break with democratic routine after another Trump victory, where these attacks on non-white people are combined with letting fossil fuel companies do whatever they want, it might be time to start talking of fossil fascism as a reality.
Q. Are there links between fossil capital and the parties that you consider to be extreme right?
R. Yes. In some cases there are direct links, Trump being the main example, because he is doing business directly with oil companies. In other European countries, the links are not as obvious, partly because we do not have that political system in which companies directly finance candidates or parties. So you don’t find similar direct links between the AfD—the German far right—and the coal industry in Germany. It is more of a political proximity where the AfD defends the interests of the coal industry, just as happens in Norway and the United Kingdom. The extreme right aligns itself with fossil capital because it is the first and most aggressive line of defense of its interests.
Q. Why do climate denialism and hatred of immigration go hand in hand in these parties?
R. I think it has to do with defending privilege and refusing to let those privileges be challenged. And the feeling that what we have is ours and we are not going to let anyone come and share it or take it away from us. This works for car defense as well as for oil or coal. And it applies to what is perceived as a defense of the nation: we are not going to allow these non-white people into our homeland because it is ours. It is for us, white people, who belong to it. It’s a similar mentality on both fronts.
Q. In the book he talks about how the oil companies promoted hoaxes about climate science and now we see the extreme right doing the same. Is there a continuity?
R. Yes. The original subversion of truth in the first major attack on scientific information was the campaign to deny climate change in the 80s and 90s. And this opened the door to other types of disassociation of knowledge, science and truth . The climate crisis is a huge thing, so if you have a concerted campaign to deny its existence, this can have knock-on effects in other parts of society, and people emerge who may also deny Covid or other things. There is a logic that unites both points.
Q. How does the eco-posture of large companies get us to believe that they are doing something to mitigate climate change?
R. What the big oil companies are doing is promoting the elimination of carbon dioxide already emitted. They say they are investing in direct carbon capture from the air, which they consider the holy grail. It is a new communication strategy to say “we are kind people, we are contributing to solving the problem, we are going to help clean the atmosphere.” This has very little to do with reality: the investments they are making are still quite small, and it is very unlikely that direct carbon dioxide capture will have the capacity to clean up everything that oil companies continue to emit. First, the extraction of fossil fuels should be stopped, but they use this excuse to continue extracting oil and gas. In the last two years, their profits have been higher than ever and in return they have these symbolic investments in renewable energy or carbon capture technologies.
Q. He explains that the ecological crisis causes disillusionment with capitalism in young people. Can this contribute to transforming the economic system?
R. We must be honest and recognize that the climate movement was very strong in 2018 and 2019, but nowhere is it as strong today. We have to wait for that to change and break out again, then maybe we could see some kind of dynamic that points beyond the status quo current.
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