Germany is an important ally for Colombia and wants to continue strengthening its relations with our country and with the region. This is how he made it clear foreign policy spokesman for Latin America of the Green Party in the German parliament (Bundestag), Max Lucks, who visited the country a few days ago to closely observe some progress and challenges in the implementation of the peace agreements in Colombian territory.
During his visit to Colombia, Lucks spoke with EL TIEMPO about the Berlin-Bogotá relations, the vision of the government of Gustavo Petro and the human rights situation in the region.
One of the key points in the relationship between Germany and Colombia is peace and the support that your country has given to the agreements with the Farc. How do you see the implementation of the agreement today?
Germany has always been on the side of Colombia in the commitment that the peace agreement implies. We are committed here and we will continue to support the country. We are watching with great interest how the institutions have developed, how the JEP works, and we are impressed above all by the speed with which civil society observes and participates in a critical and constructive manner in the development of this peace agreement.
We know that it has not been easy for you to manage the mitigation of sentences for people who are responsible for inconceivable suffering. This is a neuralgic point that they will have to deal with as a society: knowing how they are going to punish what happened for many years, but we are impressed by the way in which they are reviewing their past, and how the JEP, for example, is working.
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Would Germany be willing to support negotiations with other armed groups such as the ELN or the Clan del Golfo?
Of course. Germany, as a close friend of Colombia, will always be interested in supporting and helping them. That is precisely why we approved a motion in the German parliament (the Bundestag) last year, on my initiative, so that we can continue to participate and continue to support Colombia from the German perspective.
We also support the Capaz Research Institute here so that Colombia and Colombian civil society have the base and foundation for other peace negotiations to work.
What do you think Germany, and Europe in general, can learn from the peace process in Colombia and from the implementation of the agreements with the FARC?
It is a very good question, because it is also one of the reasons why I am here (in Colombia). We in Europe, as you well know, are experiencing a war today, a war that Russia started against Ukraine. But the reason why we in Europe are giving support to kyiv and are acting as we are doing with regard to Ukraine is to put pressure on Russia to come to the talks table.
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For that negotiation we can learn a lot from Colombia. We can justly learn that when you negotiate you can never reach 100 percent but have to give in. Both parties have to give in. We are also learning from Colombia how justice is implemented when there was a lot of injustice.
You are here, among other things, because you believe that Latin America must begin to play a key role in German foreign policy. Because?
We live in a world of global right-wing. This global right-wing is even calling into question the United Nations Declaration on Human Rights. This is something we cannot accept and that is why we have to find allies, partners with whom to join and network to face this global right-wing.
I see that there are certain countries like Colombia, for example, that are much more progressive in defending the human rights of certain rather marginalized groups in other countries such as the LGBTI. I am talking, for example, about the marginalization of these groups in Poland, Hungary and Serbia.
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I believe that the only way to face this globalization of the right that wants to reduce human rights is to get together so that we are not alone. and help each other. And it is not only on the issue of rights, it is also on the issue of combating climate change. Colombia has a good part of the Amazon, which is the lungs of the world and on which Germany’s climate also depends somewhat.
There are several issues in which we have to interact together, for example social inequities, crime, that it does not find its borders in Germany or Colombia but is transnational, or for example all the drugs that in some way link us to both Bogotá and Berlin because we have the same problem. We must work together to find new answers because international drug prohibition policy, from my perspective, has failed.
Just now that it mentions the issue of drugs, the government of Gustavo Petro has opted for a model of the fight against drugs that does not imply forced eradication and that has skyrocketed the numbers of crops in the country. What does Germany think about the way in which the Petro government deals with the drug issue? Are you worried that an oversupply will be generated that could impact Europe?
I think the legalization of drugs as an approach is correct. But what we experience with this approach and what we always experience with legalization, for example in the case of the Netherlands, is that national legislation is not enough to fight the root of the problem. We need more international understanding.
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The question we have to ask ourselves much more is where and in what conditions it is actually grown, how we make sure that the path from cultivation to consumption is free of organized crime, free of cartels. With that, the white slave trade is also lost and a number of links that are associated with illegality are lost.
In this sense, I understand Petro’s position and I believe that the correct path is the internationalization of anti-drug legislation. so we can support each other.
Germany has also been an important ally for Colombia in the preservation of the Amazon rainforest. How can we continue to strengthen our alliance on climate matters?
Germany has done a lot to protect the Amazon lung. It has done so through the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. Exactly one month ago, the alliance between Germany and Colombia was signed to support each other in renewable energy, specifically in what has to do with green hydrogen.
The goal is to produce green hydrogen with which value chains can be strengthened here in Colombia and with which human and social rights can also be guaranteed here, but at the same time import and export parts of this green hydrogen to Germany and use it there for the industry.
Obviously it is a fundamental step that shows that we are deepening our relationship and our economic ties with a common base of values that will ensure that our two societies can develop and grow together.
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It is a fundamental step that shows that we are deepening our relationship and our economic ties
You have just visited Peru and you express special concern about the human rights situation there. How do you see the human rights situation in Colombia and in the rest of the region?
Because of our history as Germans we closely follow the situation of human rights worldwide because it is our responsibility and because it is part of our values. That is why we also follow the situation of human rights in all the countries of Latin America.
In Peru, in January and February of this year, massacres were carried out that were completely outside the scope of human rights, and the current president, Dina Boluarte, has no intention of reviewing in retrospect whether mistakes were made.
That is very different here in the Colombian government, where you see concrete steps towards human rights. There may be mistakes, there will always be mistakes, but there is a lot of good intention towards human rights.
In Latin America, of course, we are seeing that the human rights situation, especially in many Central American countries, is a terrible situation. In Nicaragua, for example, not only human rights are lacerated, but even democratic rights, that is, we are very close to not being in a democracy. And our position is clear, we are always on the side of the defenders of human rights.
We also closely reviewed the case of Beatriz in El Salvador, which shows that we still have a lot to do, especially in the area of reproductive rights and for the rights of women and LGBTI people.
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A moment ago you were talking about the Ukraine. Germany, and Europe in general, have been a key ally of kyiv in the midst of the Russian invasion. However, Latin America has had a rather distant role. Do you think that Colombia, and in general the countries of the region, have to play a more active role and take a clearer position in this war?
It is part of the nature of the human being that when things come up against you directly, you become more involved. In Germany we have seen many Ukrainian refugees arrive, people who have seen terrible atrocities and who have suddenly become our neighbors and our friends. This naturally sharpens our view on the subject.
However, it would be interesting if Latin America had a mirror up to see how things are evaluated in other regions of the world, especially regions that we have neglected for too long.
It would be very important for the region to come to have a defined and clear position also with regard to the peace negotiations. The European Union welcomed Brazil’s offer, but it is important that the population take a clear position regarding war or peace.
ANGIE NATALY RUIZ HURTADO
INTERNATIONAL WRITING
TIME
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