War Israel, Chantal Meloni: “This is a watershed moment”. Here because
“Israel is still in a situation of military occupation over the Gaza Strip, because it has effective control over it.” Chantal Meloni, professor of international criminal law, little known in the media, but who Affaritaliani.it knows very well (only a few months ago, in fact, we spoke with you about Putin’s conviction by the International Criminal Court in The AJto), was a guest last night on Piazzapulita (La7) at Formigli. The topic at the center of the debate is the war between Israel and Palestine. Meloni, among the infamous talk show experts, stood out for her “authoritative voice”. Affaritaliani.it therefore decided to ask her to understand, at 360 degrees, the causes and effects of the new crisis in the Middle East.
Can and should we deal with Hamas? Many argue that it is a mission impossible and that there can be no dialogue with terrorists
Hamas is a fighting organization that was born in the Palestinian resistance movement, a resistance aimed at national liberation. The fact that it is declared a terrorist organization by Europe and other countries is a fact. I do not dispute that what Hamas has done are acts of terrorism for which there is no possible legal justification.
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There are those who compare Hamas to ISIS: is this an acceptable analysis?
It is not useful to analyze from a legal point of view what is happening by making a comparison with ISIS, or with international terrorism after September 11th. The comparison between Hamas and Isis is not apt, it forgets the context of a belligerent military occupation and Israel’s position as an occupying power. Because from a legal point of view, and not just a historical one, the context is different. There is a military occupation of Palestinian territory (which is also recognized by the UN). The situation in the Gaza Strip is certainly more complex, given the position of Israel which since 2006 has maintained that it is no longer in a context of military occupation. Therefore of not having certain responsibilities towards the Palestinian population.
You don’t seem convinced by this statement: is Israel an occupying country?
There are conclusive and convincing arguments for interpreting international law as meaning that Israel is still in a situation of military occupation over the Gaza Strip because it has effective control over it. This control is exercised in a clearly different way than in the West Bank. The fact that there are no longer Israeli soldiers on the Gaza Strip does not mean that a series of measures taken by Israel are not “control”: from the total blockade to the management of the airspace up to the rationing of the resources entering it (water, petrol , electricity). This makes it clear that the control that Israel exercises in a different way is still effective. This is the central point in order to then be able to say from a legal point of view that Israel is still in a situation of occupying power.
But on the other hand, Hamas behaves like a terrorist organization: it massacres children, innocent young people, and more generally civilians…
It is not true that we cannot expect Hamas to respect the fundamental rules of distinction between civilians and combatants… But this also applies to Israel. If we take the armed conflict of an international nature as a key to understanding, Hamas as an armed fighting group has precise responsibilities to respect the rules of war. We can therefore read the actions of Hamas as very serious crimes, as international war crimes. But we can do the same towards Israel.
Let me explain better…
The accusation of terrorism taken out of context serves no other purpose than to justify a disproportionate reaction that moves outside the rules that exist in international law. It is not true that there are no limits to the response that Israel can give to what happened to civilians in its territory. What we are seeing today is nothing new. It is almost astonishing that the world only realizes when these escalations happen and there are, and when Israeli civilians are killed: because this situation with this gravity has been going on for decades (particularly with respect to Gaza since at least 2007).
What should the UN do?
The failure to comply with all the resolutions of the UN Security Council, the convictions and documentation drawn up by independent commissions of investigation, the lack of legal consequences for Israel and the precise responsibilities as an occupying power: this is precisely what leads to extremism, which is leading to these brutal attacks. You can’t justify violence and terror, of course. What happened (at the Be’Eri kibbutz, ed.) must be condemned without any ifs or buts. But I would like to explain that if the world does not apply international law equally to Israel, and does not call it to respect the fundamental principles, we will never get out of this situation.
Are we on the verge of a new war of attrition? What do you expect for the future?
This seems to be a watershed moment, somewhat similar to what 9/11 was. We have seen what the short and long-term disasters have been of the approach that was taken at the time, in the USA having embarked on a war on terrorism without borders and without recognizing the limits that international law places in the response also to these types of attacks. There are principles and limits to be respected even in this type of reaction.
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