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Bárbara Reynolds (Guyana, 64 years old) honors the oral tradition that characterizes Afro-descendant peoples. Before answering any question, she takes some time and then responds with a metaphor or example that encapsulates decades of critical study. Her pedagogical talent is also the result of having been raised by a teacher and having dedicated her entire life to reflecting on teaching. The current president of the UN Group of Experts on People of African Descent, she graduated in Education and has two master’s degrees and a doctorate in the field of teaching and curriculum development. “Nowadays you can tell if the kids in a school are black just by looking at the outside. That has to change,” she says.
His current battle is to advance the Declaration of Human Rights of Afro-descendant peoples and permeate the organization in which he works with anti-racism. “The UN is made up of people, not angels. There is still a lot of work to do,” he says in one of the rooms of the emblematic Hotel Tequendama, in Bogotá. Here, in mid-June, the event took place Ensure the land tenure rights of Afro-descendant Peoples, cconvened by the Coalition of Territorial Rights of Afro-descendant Peoples of Latin America, which represents 25 organizations from the continent.
In the inaugural speech, Reynolds mentioned the debt of the States regarding the ownership of the lands of the black populations. Although these communities protect and cultivate 168 million hectares in Latin America and the Caribbean, they only own 5% of them. “This is not just an economic issue. […], not even convenience. “It is about maintaining the tenuous links between the past and present that are threatened and for the security of future development,” she assured. Later, during an hour of reflective and ironic conversation with América Futura, Reynold, who refuses to define herself as a feminist, talks about reparations, activism and Trump and insists that the enemy is not the target: “I have no special desire about the white people, but about racists. And these come in all shapes and colors.”
Ask. He is working to achieve the Declaration of Human Rights of Afro-descendant peoples. Why is the 1948 universal declaration not enough?
Answer. If it had been respected, we would not need all the conventions we have: Convention on the Rights of the Child, Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination against Women, International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination… These declarations are targeting the rights of people who are not being taken into account. It is obvious that the rights of the Afro-descendant population have not been respected. And what the statement wants is, first, to understand why and to ensure that it does not happen again. We need a historical perspective that takes into account discrimination, racism and afrophobia lived.
Q. How to ensure that the declaration does not remain on empty paper?
R. There are no guarantees. We have to work with the imperfect governments we have. I believe that there are principles that unite many States by which they voluntarily agree to work together. And that’s all you can ask for in this imperfect world.
Q. 80% of the population of the Dominican Republic is of African descent, but less than 9% identify as such. In countries like Chile or Argentina there is great invisibility…
R. But do you really think they think so? Because I can believe myself to be a queen and that doesn’t make me one. It is logical that it is difficult to connect to a history as traumatic as that of slavery. We feel the trauma of history in our bones, in our psyche. And many do not want to relate to that trauma. Many people say, ‘If I don’t look 100% black, that’s better, because I don’t have to deal with the trauma.’” You can name yourself whatever you want, but people need to understand that if others see you as an Afro-descendant, it doesn’t matter how you see yourself. Because the world is going to treat you differently. Once you understand it, the reflection on how to live in my skin begins. And from a policy perspective, the first thing you need is accurate data and pedagogy. We can use something that unites us with Afro-descendant peoples: oral tradition. Not everyone may understand what ships my ancestors came from, but you know they came. The more we educate, the more people will recognize themselves as Afro-descendants. Governments have to be more responsible…
Q. How?
R. In many. If you despise black people, why are the babysitters who take care of your child black? I don’t think anyone would leave the care of a child to someone they were afraid of. They don’t despise us, they envy us. Because everything you despise you keep away; This is how phobias work. And, believe me, there are also black people who hate white people.
Q. And don’t they deserve it?
R. No. (Laughter). That’s the point, that hate is irrational.
Q. Isn’t it okay for people of African descent to feel angry with the white population?
R. Because of what they have done, yes. But if you have an accident and need a transfusion, do you think the most racist person is going to ask if it came from a white or a black or an Asian? Deep down we all know the truth; We all know that we are equal. But racism makes some feel more powerful. I’m not minimizing the problem. There is one that is thousands of years old. And he’s going to take time to fix it…
Q. The Caribbean Community (Caricom) has a roadmap with specific points on reparation. How can the relationship between colonized and colonizing countries change?
R. I will give you an example. If your grandmother left a house to your parents valued at $20,000 and they wanted to give it to you today, what would the value be?
Q. Much more…
R. Clear. That happened with slavery. The more white people had, the more they have now. And the less Afros had during slavery, the less they have now. Reparation is about that, correcting historical errors; to level the playing field. European people say: ‘I didn’t do anything bad to you.’ Of course not! But you live off the results of what your ancestors did. This generation has a moral obligation to fix these wrongs, because we are here now. You can’t sit on the millions of dollars your ancestors made from slavery and say you didn’t enslave anyone. Your privileges come from there.
Q. How is it repaired?
R. Reparations range from the recovery of what was stolen, which is now in its museums, to amending the impact of the diseases they brought. Also the way in which they took away the culture, worship and food of the natives. It seems somewhat simplified, but if you look closely at everything they destroyed, you understand why today there is such a gap between Afro-descendants and others.
Q. What wounds do you feel colonization left in your country, Guyana?
R. Many things. I find it curious that adults never want to apologize when we spend our lives teaching little ones to do so. In law, only when you apologize do you realize that you did something wrong. Natural justice requires that you make restitution. That’s why [los Gobiernos europeos] They look for any euphemism except the word forgiveness. I always say that “sorry” does not come with a period after it, but with a comma. ‘Okay, you’re sorry. And now that?”. We should talk about economic reparation, about amendments to racist laws…
Q. I understand that that’s why they don’t want to talk about it…
R. It’s stupid though. Because governments spend more on weapons. But don’t believe it, there are many Afro-descendants who don’t see it necessary either and talk about the same nonsense as some white people.
Q. Does it hurt twice as much?
R. It does not hurt. Irritating twice as much.
Q. Like the Latino vote for Trump…
R. Oh, I don’t even want to talk about that. (Laughs). I’m not American, but I think sociologists are going to study this phenomenon for years.
Q. Do you think social movements, like feminism, are white?
R. No. I believe that the media is complicit in making black people invisible. It happened to me in 1991 with a BBC reporter, who interviewed me and they gave her all my content in statements from a white lady. More than 30 years have passed and I have never forgotten. It was immoral. And that happens. Not all social movements are white, but the media refuses to portray the interracial world in which we live.
Q. What is the role of white people in the anti-racist fight?
R. I would like to turn the question around. Because neither whites nor blacks nor Asians are monochromatic or monolithic. The responsibility of each Government is to ensure that constitutions, policies and programs are followed so that all citizens have access to the same services and opportunities in the country. I don’t have any special desires about white people, but I do have any special desires about racists. And these come in all shapes and colors.
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