Corona measures, ‘2G’, riots. The Netherlands is busy with itself. And that while tensions around the EU are rising. Belarus deliberately caused a migration crisis. Russia has gathered nearly a hundred thousand soldiers on the border with Ukraine, according to the US the possible prelude to an invasion. No, it has not been quiet since Ben Knapen (CDA) suddenly had to step in as foreign minister two months ago, after interim minister Sigrid Kaag (D66) stumbled over the Afghanistan file. It was up to him to pick up the shards of the chaotic evacuation from Kabul.
Knapen (70) doesn’t seem to be getting over it yet. After a long journalistic career (including as editor-in-chief of NRC Handelsblad) he held many administrative positions: State Secretary for Foreign Affairs, Director-General of the European Investment Bank, Member of the Senate. His calm, contemplative debating style is characteristic, although he is regularly urged by the President of the House.
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Knapen will not return in a new cabinet, he says. “I am seventy. I’m fit. But the next ride is for the next generation.” While it lasts, he enjoys the office and the view from his office. The range of railway tracks he overlooks takes him back to the Märklin trains of his childhood.
You talked recently about growing ‘hybrid discomfort’ on the eastern flank, but now there are just Russian tanks near Ukraine. Are we not looking at the beginning of a war?
“I wouldn’t want to take that over. By hybrid inconvenience I mean that the number of variants with which you can make each other’s life miserable has expanded enormously. Look at cyber attacks, but also at Belarus, which presents itself as a people smuggler. But indeed: what Russia is doing comes from the classic box of intimidation.”
The US is very concerned. The EU less?
“I don’t think you can say it in such black and white terms. Ultimately, it is always about something we do not know: the precise intentions of the Russian leadership. We are also sending signals to Russia that we are very concerned. The US has said, and as a key member of NATO it is also in a position to do so, that when things go wrong the reaction’swift and significant‘ will be. In any case, that indicates that a possible adventure will not be free for Russia. I’m not going to elaborate on that now. It is unwise to speculate openly. Maintaining uncertainty is also an instrument in this phase.”
The EU wants to become strategically autonomous. Yet the US is again the ‘spokesperson’ for the West in this crisis.
“At the moment, and also for the foreseeable future, what is happening now far exceeds the European autonomous tension. That is a hard fact.”
The EU can pause Russia’s Nord Stream 2 gas project. That would certainly hurt Russian leader Putin.
“Certainly, but it is not wise to indicate which things can happen in which order. If it comes to sanctions, then nothing can be ruled out in advance, including the shutdown of Nord Stream 2.”
Since the withdrawal from Afghanistan, when no one could do without the US, the European Commission has been calling for the establishment of a rapidly deployable EU military unit. You are very enthusiastic about that. Why?
“You can’t keep asking the Americans to do work for us. There are already ‘EU battlegroups‘, but they require too much political decision-making. When you start a mission, it makes sense that you need unanimity for that. But it’s very annoying when you have to ask permission for every step you take in the follow-up process – if you expand the mission a bit, or adjust the character slightly. It is also very important that you set it up in such a way that the able and the willing can really get to work now, and therefore do not have to wait for the rest.”
The Netherlands is ‘able and willing’?
“I am a strong supporter of the Netherlands being part of this core group. It will not be a ‘European army’. There is also no NATO army. It is about national armies that do something together when it is necessary. And yes, it is necessary now.”
For the Netherlands, which for a long time saw the EU primarily as a market, this is a huge step.
“We have traditionally been a country of neutrality, of multilateralism. The Peace Palace is located in The Hague for a reason. We have always tried to stay out of everything. So this is not a step you take lightly. Geopolitics is at odds with our tradition, but now just happens to us: after the fall of the Wall, it was foreseen that China and Russia would be part of a global, multilateral system, based on treaties. That did not come true.”
It is sometimes suggested that human rights and the rule of law are absolute categories. I question that.
Ben Knapen Outgoing minister
You said that the Netherlands should dare to get their hands dirty. So less human rights and the rule of law?
“Those things belong to the Netherlands. Only the suggestion is sometimes made that these are absolute categories. I question that. Take Qatar. You can say anything about their dealings with workers, and you have to. At the same time, we enjoy the Qatari, who help us keep the connection with Kabul in the air. It’s a bit like saying to my neighbor across the street: you’re no good at all, but can you water my plants when I’m on vacation?”
Suppose the Belarusian dictator Lukashenko says: I will no longer send migrants to the border if you lift the sanctions. Are we going into that?
“Elections have been severely manipulated, people imprisoned, tortured. We are not so panicked that we say: we forget that. No way.”
Recognize the Taliban government in exchange for extra evacuees: is that possible?
“We have two crucial wishes. We want to evacuate the people we promised to do. Secondly, we want to prevent a humanitarian disaster from happening in Afghanistan. We are looking at what we can do with our European partners. We don’t need to recognize the Taliban for that. Last week, a Dutch and a German envoy traveled to Kabul to see if the Taliban are willing to cooperate in transferring people.”
Do you already know exactly how many people?
“We are still looking with Defense and aid organizations to see who is eligible for evacuation based on which criteria. All in all, we think we’ll end up with about two thousand people. The project leader thinks it will take a few months to determine whether we are all talking about the same people.”
The guards of the Dutch embassy in Kabul are not eligible, you wrote to the House, because they were officially employed by a subcontractor. That sounds pretty cold.
“In those three weeks of panic after the fall of Kabul, hardly any criteria were considered. Then the motto was: no time for that, hop on the plane. Of course you can’t keep that up forever. In addition, the airport closed on August 26 and we are now in a different phase, where no one can get out. The question is how you deal with that.”
In a motion by D66 spokesperson Salima Belhaj, the House of Representatives asked for the evacuation of everyone who had worked for the Netherlands. The Netherlands received 20,000 emails from Afghans.
“That motion does not require that we proactively remove everyone who has ever had anything to do with the Netherlands from Afghanistan.”
They must be evacuated, it says.
“Of course we had to translate that motion into something that we could realize operationally. The people we do not proactively try to remove from Afghanistan are classified as a risk group on the basis of the Belhaj motion. This means that if they manage to get here themselves, they will be given priority in an asylum procedure.”
The House wants a commission of inquiry into the evacuation from Kabul in August. Why is that necessary? It is clear that there has been a failure, two ministers have resigned.
“I wasn’t there, but what I hear about it gives the impression that it is more than worth it to look very, very closely at how this went. I understood that in August there were hundreds of volunteers who called people in Afghanistan day and night. This raises questions: do we have the clout, the combined capacity and the crisis management in such situations?”
The answer is ‘no, no, no’.
“I don’t think I should walk away from such a committee. In this case I am also just a servant of the Chamber.”
You recently said to the House: be a little careful with my successor.
“We are a relatively small country so we don’t have to rely on power, but on relationships. An excessive rotation of ministers is then unwise.”
What message will you pass on to the next minister?
“Try to involve the public in your foreign policy. People need to realize that it’s not a far-fetched show when the Oromos and the Amharas and the Tigreeans are at odds with each other. It could lead to millions of refugees. These kinds of links between Verweggistan and our daily lives must be constantly made. That will be crucial for the coming years.”
This is what the flight from Afghanistan to the Netherlands looks like Weekend 22-25
A version of this article also appeared in NRC Handelsblad of 27 November 2021
A version of this article also appeared in NRC in the morning of November 27, 2021
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