These have been dizzying days at the headquarters of the Guatemalan Ministry of Foreign Affairs. Its minister, the charismatic diplomat Carlos Ramiro Martínez (Guatemala City, 66 years old) has been at the forefront of the operation by his government that ended successfully with the return to his country of more than a hundred political prisoners unjustly detained by the regime led by Daniel Ortega and his wife Rosario Murillo in Nicaragua. It all began ten days ago, when a surprise communication from the United States Embassy asked Guatemalan diplomacy for a meeting with President Bernardo Arévalo. At that meeting they dropped the bomb and, says Martínez, the president did not hesitate for a moment to accept. What did Guatemala gain in return? Martínez says nothing, that they did it out of “solidarity.” The truth is that President Arévalo has earned international admiration for a humanitarian gesture that exposes the barbarities of the hunt unleashed by Ortega against critical voices in his country. Martínez meets with EL PAÍS one day after the arrival of the Nicaraguans. He does so in his office, a large, well-lit space in the labyrinthine building of the Foreign Ministry, and he gives a very generous account of the details of an operation that has led to the freedom of those who had been arrested and sentenced for expressing their opinions or dissenting from the Nicaraguan State of terror.
Ask. How is Guatemala involved in this process? How was the agreement with the United States made to receive these people?
Answer. There is a process of which I do not know the details, which is the process prior to the negotiations between the United States and the Nicaraguan government. I imagine that it is an ongoing process and that it took them quite a bit of time, because it must not be easy to convince the president and the vice president. Eight or ten days ago we were contacted by the United States Embassy in Guatemala, they even requested a special meeting so that the president could receive them. What they did there was to explain to us the background of that negotiation, the need they had to find a country that under certain circumstances of openness, a country willing to welcome these Nicaraguan citizens, would offer itself as such.
P. Why did you choose Guatemala? What explanation did they give you?
R. The explanation is that there had to be an agreement with the Nicaraguan government on where these people should go. I do not doubt that other countries have emerged along the way, but the country that was accepted was Guatemala and it is part of that negotiation process. In our case, the government has been very clear in being open, because of its commitment to democracy and look how difficult it has been for us. The reaction was immediate. We did not say ‘we will think about it’, but the president perfectly understood the situation and the need for this action.
P. Who participated in that meeting on behalf of the United States?
R. The senior officials of the Embassy were there with a very specific mission from the State Department. Secretary Antony Blinken himself spoke with President Arévalo. It was a topic of fundamental interest to the United States. It was at that meeting that the president made the immediate decision and the next minute we began to work on all the coordination.
P. How did that meeting go? What specific topics did you discuss?
R. They gave us a description of the negotiations they had had, without going into the details, which I don’t know, but if I did, believe me, I would share them with you. They then explained how they came to the conclusion that Guatemala was the country, based on that agreement with Nicaragua, and they made a specific request to see if we could take action to welcome these people. The process that begins is one of coordination not only with the embassy, but with other Guatemalan institutions, UNHCR, IOM and UNICEF, on the issue of minors.
P. As the person in charge of foreign policy for the Guatemalan government, did you have contact with the Nicaraguan executive?
R. No. In fact, the negotiations between Nicaragua and the United States had already concluded and that is why they approached us. What was left for the US authorities and the embassy in Managua was to finalize the details. We began all that coordination, all the details, and nobody was informed. This was strictly handled by the people who were at that meeting, as well as the director of Immigration. We began to coordinate the communications part between the State Department, the US embassy, ourselves, and the Secretariat of Social Communication of the Presidency to be alert to what was going to be front-page, explosive news.
P. How was the trip to Guatemala for these people?
R. There were people from our group on the flight accompanying them. They describe a very emotional moment upon landing. The Vice Minister of Foreign Affairs came in to welcome them, to receive them on behalf of the Government and the Guatemalan State. It was a very emotional moment, the reactions were diverse. There were hugs, joy, songs. People obviously came with the usual fears after who knows how many days, weeks or months of detention, but it was an explosion, people shouted ‘Long live Guatemala!’ ‘Long live the United States!’ There were those who got off and kissed the ground. It was something very special.
P. When 222 political prisoners were released a year ago, the United States sent them directly to Washington. Why do you think they have now decided to send them to another country?
R. Perhaps they preferred to go through Guatemala because we have a safe mobility program with the United States, which is not the safe third country program. This program welcomes nationals of the four CA-4 member countries. [Guatemala, El Salvador, Honduras y Nicaragua] And, although these Nicaraguans can freely enter the territory, they were given a humanitarian immigration status so that they would have that coverage and that status would be part of the process in which they are involved. They have the possibility of going to third countries and even, if they wish, they can stay in Guatemala.
P. Would the government offer them citizenship if they asked for it?
R. There is a peculiarity here, because in the case of the prisoners released earlier, the Nicaraguan government published the lists of names and revoked their nationality. So far we have no news that they have done so with these people. They maintain their nationality and obviously they must be documented. There is a consular section of the Nicaraguan embassy here, because there is no ambassador, and I assume that part of this process will be handled by UNHCR.
P. Has the Nicaraguan embassy or consulate not been involved in this process here?
R. I couldn’t say. Maybe UNHCR got in touch with them. Some of them won’t have any documents. What we do have is a list, with names, with an identification reference for each person, but it is not made public.
P. There is criticism that the Guatemalan and US authorities have not made public the names of those released.
R. I understand that perfectly. Imagine the situation of families who know that their relative is detained and want to kn
ow if they are one of these people, but last time it was Nicaragua that released the list. I understand, but we should ask the Embassy officials directly, that the United States has a certain legal reserve regarding the names, because of the process in which these people will be involved, assuming also that most of them want to go to the United States. I personally feel sorry for this situation, because I do believe in the right of families to know whether their relatives are released or not. It would have helped us a lot if Nicaragua had released the names.
P. Do you think there may be tensions with the Nicaraguan government over this decision to take in these people?
R. I would hope not. There is a very particular situation in our region, we are connected, there is a very large network of trade and investment and that goes beyond politics, luckily. I would not expect a reaction. Of course I am waiting to see if the new Nicaraguan foreign minister makes any comment on this. He will surely do so and we will surely not like it, but it is part of the political game.
P. What are relations like with the Nicaraguan regime?
R. It was not until February that speculation began and headlines appeared that we were going to break diplomatic relations with Nicaragua. What I did was call Minister Denis Moncada, who was the foreign minister until recently, and I said: ‘Look, the headlines in the press are not a reflection of what you or we surely want.’ The relationship remains, there are differences in the view of things. They were a little upset because they were not invited to the inauguration of President Arévalo, obviously that was a very clear and very direct message. They even closed the Nicaraguan Embassy in December when they already knew that everyone had their invitation in hand.
P. It was quite a statement of intent not to have invited them.
R. Of course. It was a clear signal, let’s not lose sight of that.
P. What is Guatemala’s official position on what is happening in Nicaragua? There are reports of serious human rights violations.
R. It is a situation that greatly concerns us. This Government has governed its actions within a framework of commitment to democracy, and democracy is not only about elections, but a scenario of spaces, freedoms and openness that do not exist in Nicaragua. We see it with concern, there are political prisoners, there is a situation of persecution of emerging leaders, a persecution of all sectors, there are people who have disappeared and in that, sadly, Guatemala has a lot to say. Here we have lived through totally dark times.
P. Would you classify the Nicaraguan regime as a dictatorship?
R. We return to the topic of democracy: what is democracy? Let us try to define it and compare it with what is happening in Nicaragua. The conclusion is obvious.
P. The United States has said that Guatemala is its great partner in Central America. What does Guatemala gain from this action, what does it expect to receive from Washington?
R. Nothing. Believe me, my answer is honest: we did it with a humanitarian spirit, a spirit of brotherhood towards our Central American neighbors. Why did the United States come to Guatemala? Well, it could be that they see in Guatemala a scenario of a government with which they can work, a government that the United States is obviously betting on.
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