Pablo Pastega: “Spain has the most expensive bus prices in all of Europe”

Pablo Pastega is in charge of the Flixbus business in Spain, Portugal, France, Belgium, the Netherlands and Luxembourg. In the Iberian Peninsula he manages two very different businesses. While the neighboring country has chosen to liberalize the road passenger transport sector, Spain maintains the concessional model, which is now going to experience a twist with the future Sustainable Mobility Law that is being processed in Congress.

The subsidiary of the German multinational, which does not have its own buses or drivers here, can currently only operate international routes and is waiting for legal changes that will allow it to accelerate its business through a concept, called cabotage, that would increase the number of clients.

You are a bus company, but you do not have a fleet of vehicles or drivers. What is Flixbus? How do you operate?

Flixbus is present in more than 40 countries. In two, we have our own fleet, with buses owned and drivers, which are the United States and Türkiye. In other countries we have a model that we understand is better adapted to their circumstances, because they are markets where there was already an industrial network of small and medium-sized bus companies, but there was no one to help them enter a market that was closed, in most cases, that of regular long-distance lines. In these markets, such as Spain, Flixbus reaches agreements, it does not subcontract. They are association agreements with transport companies that already operate, that already have businesses and propose to open a new line of activity and diversify. Flixbus has more than 1,000 member companies in 40 countries, reaching more than 5,500 destinations.

How many do you have here?

We have partnership agreements with ten companies. In Spain our market is very small. We only operate international long distance lines, because they only allow us to operate that. We have a very old system, dating back even before democracy, which was adapted in 1987, through the Land Transport Management Law (LOTT). But that law has been outdated, in many ways. What it is about now is trying, together, to modernize the framework of the sector so that it continues to grow and can bring more and more users. There is another problem, the long-distance bus in Spain, in ten years, has lost 15 million passengers and it is worth asking why. 45 million passengers were transported annually, ten later, there are 30 million. If a model works well and does not need to be changed, why has it lost passengers?

Where have they gone, to the train, to the private vehicle?

Nobody has done a survey on that. Obviously, people are still moving, because long-distance transportation has not decreased. People travel more than they did ten or 15 years ago. So where have those passengers gone? Well, part of it has gone to the high-speed train. Another, to car sharing platforms, whether formal or informal; and other people will have decided to go to the private car. And why? Because Spain has the most expensive bus prices in all of Europe. Traveling between two cities in two different regions in Spain is 50% more expensive than it is in Portugal or France. I repeat it again, we have a model that is from the past.

15 years ago there were almost 5,000 bus companies. Today there are 2,700

Precisely, the Sustainable Mobility Law is now being processed in Congress, which seeks to change this model of transportation and bus lines. Are you optimistic about the new regulation?

The Law that the Ministry has inherited comes from the previous legislature. It is a good first step, but it lacks ambition. He lacks in terms of really wanting to rethink and reform a model that has lost 15 million passengers, which is the model that has imposed the most expensive prices in all of Europe. And it’s not just that, the industrial fabric of the bus has decreased. 15 years ago there were almost 5,000 bus companies. Today there are 2,700.

Do you think it is possible to make changes to the law during its parliamentary process?

We are having conversations with all political groups. I think they understand that there are ways to improve it without carrying out a radical change or a change that would really be transformative, for example, regarding cabotage.

That’s a word that not everyone knows. What does it mean?

Let’s imagine a bus line that connects Valencia, Madrid and Badajoz. It is a line that, in reality, already exists, with intermediate stops, and which is a concession that has expired for 15 or 20 years. Before Óscar Puente arrived at the Ministry, a contest was launched to renew that concession and no company attended. We and other operators have buses that go from Madrid to Lisbon; or they connect Levante and Lisbon, which pass through Toledo, Badajoz and then go to Portugal.

We are not allowed to take advantage of the empty seats that there are on those buses, which there are, to be able to sell tickets and have people travel, for example, from Madrid to Toledo or from Toledo to Badajoz, using that bus that is already passing over there. We are not allowed because it is said that this would seriously affect that concession. And we are also told that it is illegal from the point of view of the LOTT. We have another opinion. The European regulation that was approved in 2009 is not being implemented in Spain, but neither this Government nor the previous one has done so. It is about taking advantage of international buses to transport passengers between Spanish cities.

Is it not changing the concessions system, but rather allowing cabotage?

Indeed. It makes economic and environmental sense. It doesn’t hurt anyone, but there is a kind of closure. And there are also doomsayers, the large concessionaire companies, large law firms and large consulting firms. What do these doomsayers say? That the Spanish model is the best in the world, that it should not be changed and that if it is changed what could happen is a catastrophe, because the emptied Spain would be disconnected and the bus sector would be reduced, something that has already happened, because in In 15 years, as I said, half of the bus companies that existed have been destroyed.

These doomsayers remind me of those who, with the Tobacco Law, said that bars and restaurants were going to have to close. And they haven’t closed. Or with telecommunications, when it was proposed to open the market, it was said that emptied Spain was going to be left disconnected and without a telephone. It hasn’t happened. The doomsayers are there and they have a lot of influence. We try to make political groups understand and look at the data and the European experience.

Is there any other country where cabotage does not exist?

No. Cabotage is implemented in all countries, even in Denmark or the Netherlands, which do not have their markets liberalized. They are concessional markets where cabotage is implemented and nothing has happened.

As for the concession model, as proposed. Would it be a problem for that emptied Spain or not?

The existing model is not the best and I base it on empirical data. The CNMC [la Comisión Nacional de los Mercados y la Competencia] made a report two years ago that said all routes over 100 kilometers should be opened to competition. The thing is that Funcas, which is also a ‘think tank’ not associated with anyone, with any bus company, has also said it. Fedea [Fundación de Estudios de Economía Aplicada] said it previously and the European Commission. The examples of Portugal, Italy, France and many other countries show that when the market opens, connectivity is not reduced, frequencies are increased, prices are lowered and citizens and the environment win.

How do you value the management of Minister Óscar Puente?

He has arrived at a very complicated ministry. So to speak, buried in things of the past. But I know that Minister Puente is eager, he wants to transform and modernize. I trust that I can do it. I also think he wants to do something that is fundamental for society as a whole, which is to find a road transportation model that is more efficient, more accessible to people. In that, he will always have us supporting him.

I mentioned the reduction of companies before, but this is a sector where there have been mergers and acquisitions. How do you see this concentration process?

I don’t know what degree of concentration there is. What I believe is that we must follow the recommendations made by the competition authorities in all markets, because that is good for society as a whole and good for users.

Minister Puente is eager, he wants to transform and modernize. I trust that I can do it

A few weeks ago, elDiario.es published that there are 100 companies that account for more than half of the largest subsidies granted in Spain in 2023. Among them are transport companies, such as Transvia Go or Alsa. How do you see it?

I didn’t know him, I can’t comment on it. It is worth asking if we are a country of SMEs. Our politicians always emphasize it and do very well in emphasizing it, but it must be done with concrete actions. Today, the long distance market is controlled by two or three companies, although they are open or highly regulated competitions.

And if the market opens. How would users notice it? How much would prices drop?

I look at what has happened in Portugal. It opened its market in 2019, just before COVID. Before there was a large operator that had absorbed other companies. Now there are four or five operators. We are one of them. There are others who do it through cabotage. Even large Spanish companies, which here refuse to do cabotage, do so in Portugal. It is worth asking why they want to do it in France or Portugal and not in Spain. In Portugal, the market has gone from 7 or 8 million passengers to 13. It has practically doubled. Prices have been reduced considerably and no city has been disconnected.

The sector is experiencing other problems. For example, it has been suggested for some time that there is a need for more drivers, that there is no labor available. Do you have that perception?

We don’t have that problem. It is also true that our market in Spain is very limited because we only operate on international lines. But, as of today, in the case of Flixbus and our partners, I am not aware that we have problems hiring drivers.

But it is a problem that has also arisen in other European countries.

Indeed it is an issue at the European level, we must attract people to the driving profession, which is neither simple nor easy. And that involves doing many things, for example, we have a training program and we go further than the regulation in terms of driving times. On some night lines there are two active drivers consuming tachograph. In Italy, we have reached an agreement with the main unions. We would love to do the same in Spain.

Regarding that, right now we have planned a strike for the next few weeks, to improve conditions and bring forward retirement. How do you value unemployment? Do you think it is possible to reach an agreement?

We are not aware that it will affect our operation. There are still a few weeks left and there are many strikes that are called and then called off.