Online shop | Nahka Paroni defrauded Pipsa Hurmerinna of 940 euros in the online store, the bank refused to reimburse

Other known as a cook, among other things Pipsa Hurmerinta put a 340-euro baby care product up for sale on Facebook's Marketplace.

Deals were made quickly. The buyer said he wanted to pay for the item through Posti's service and gave a link where Hurmerinta identified himself with his bank credentials.

The address of the link read Posti-.fi, and that could have raised suspicion. Similarly, POSTI was written occasionally. So immediately after giving the bank IDs, Hurmerinta started to suspect the whole thing.

He contacted his bank Nordea through the online banking application.

Went it turns out that Skin Baron [Nahka Paroni] The company named Hurmerinna and this man had made a margin reservation of 940 euros on the account of Hurmerinna and this man.

In the bank's opinion, this charge, which would take place after three days, could no longer be prevented.

According to Nordea, the approval of the charge had required that Pipsa Hurmerinta herself had accepted the confirmation via the Nordea ID application that Skin Baron would receive a credit of 940 euros from her account.

“Why would I have accepted a different amount than what was agreed upon for the transaction?” Hurmerinta asks with indignation still in her voice.

Nordea made a decision according to which Hurmerinta did not get its money back.

According to the bank, the transfer of funds to another can only take place if a message has been sent to Hurmerinta, in which both the payee and the amount have been stated, and that Hurmerinna has accepted it.

According to Hurmerinna, she did not see her acceptance of 940 euros on the screen.

“I said that I have no reason to lie, and if I have mistakenly accepted that payment, then I can admit my mistake.”

Hurmer chest says that he has worked for four years at a listed company (Noho Partners), where he has handled invoices on a daily basis. “I don't just press pin codes absentmindedly.”

Reflecting on the matter afterwards, Hurmerinta says that at most the pin code could have been given when she identified herself in Nordea's mobile bank to tell the bank about the attempted fraud.

Even the thought that he would have accepted the payment of 940 euros intended for Skin Baron is absurd for Hurmerinna.

“I'm not illiterate or an idiot.”

Hurmerinta believes that in the scam, it was managed in some sophisticated way to hide to whom and in what amount the approval was given, when he thought he was only accepting the payment coming to himself.

HS said at the end of November that investment scams and cheating sellers online marketplaces for used goods have become more common and complicated.

Hurmerinta is ready to go public with her scam so that others can beware.

At the same time, he criticized Nordea for many different reasons.

In his opinion, Nordea's operations were not transparent, and as is often the case with large organizations these days, personal dealings have been made difficult.

For example, the name of the person who made a negative compensation decision is not disclosed at Nordea.

Hurmerinta says “as a mortgage debtor Premium-customer” that he was so angry and stubborn that finally his personal bank advisor arranged a conversation with the Nordea manager who made the decision over the phone.

In the conversation, Hurmerinta had said that she knew that Nordea had insurance for such situations. Why wasn't it used on him, he had asked.

“They replied that they cannot answer because it is a trade secret.”

“Why is Sirpa compensated, but Peka not? Then we're already in silly waters. That can't be a business secret,” says Hurmerinta.

Hurmer chest says he wants proof from the bank that he has approved a money transfer of 940 euros to a strange company.

Now, in his opinion, the case is just word against word.

It also annoyed me that only a person as mean and angry as him could even discuss the matter.

“I said that you wouldn't even have this conversation with someone who is weaker.”

Dispute concluded for the bank that Nordea ultimately paid Pipsa Hurmerinna 150 euros for a bad customer experience.

“The bank's message said that we have dealt with your scam, which was on Tori.fi. I answered that come on if you don't compare it, you'd better look into the matter to check the correct name of the store. After that they deleted the message.”

“When I asked why it was removed, the answer was because it was incorrect.”

from Nordea it is reported that the bank will not comment on Hurmerinna's experience as an individual case.

Director of Nordea's personal customer business Jani Eloranta assures, however, that all customers' cases are handled in the same way when it comes to scams.

“As quickly as possible,” says Eloranta.

Until the bank has thoroughly investigated what the customer has done, seen and accepted, no decisions will be made.

“Based on that, we will look at whose responsibility it is that what happened. If necessary, the information will be delivered to the customer in writing.”

Nordea's diagram of how in a marketplace scam the money is stolen from the seller of the goods when he thinks he accepts the future payment. Picture: Nordea

Eloranta in practice, it is not possible for fraudsters to use such sophisticated methods of cheating that the customer would not see on his terminal what he has accepted with his Nordea ID application.

There is one exception here.

“

“If you don't see what you accept, don't pay.”

If there are several invoices to be paid, the amount of the payment will not be visible in Nordea's mobile bank when approving them, but even in this case, you must have first approved in Nordea ID that the invoices will be paid all at once. Even then, someone had to enter them individually in Nordea ID first and accept that the invoices will be paid all at once.

Eloranta recommends treating electronic approval with the same caution as signing contracts.

“It's worth looking at what's on the screen before you accept. If you don't see what you accept, don't pay.”

Nordea can see the approvals, their dates, the device with which the approval was made, and what the customer has read on the screen at any given time from the log data of the ID application.

Eloranta says that in the case of online fraud, Nordea follows the same policy as credit card companies and that the compensation policies in similar cases are uniform for all operators, the Insurance and Financial Advisory Board (Fine) to solutions based on.

“The Payment Services Act is the same for all operators.”

European credit card purchases made outside often do not require strong identification.

In these scams that take place without strong identification, the responsibility rests with the credit card company.

“But account transfers cannot be made without strong identification. Once you accept the account transfer, it is final,” warns Eloranta.

Hurmerinna in this case, the money was still in the account, although the payment debit was visible.

Still, the fraudster's activities were not suspended at the bank.

Eloranta stresses that it is not possible to comment on any customer's personal matters. However, he reminds us that typically payment transactions take place in real time, although recording transactions in banking systems takes time.

The payment could still be stopped at the recipient's bank end, but it often takes so long to settle the matter between the parties that the funds have time to transfer.

Eloranta says that Nordea is doing a lot of work in the background of smooth payment traffic to stop unclear payments.

In the event of fraud, Eloranta recommends calling Nordea's customer service on 0200 3000.

“The average waiting time is less than five minutes,” says Eloranta.

According to Eloranta, when scams require expert investigation, it takes time.

“We want to be sure, and there may be a delay. That's why you don't get an answer right away.”

If the customer has acted carefully, or if the course of events is unclear, and the bank does not have clear evidence of the customer's careless actions, Nordea will always resolve the matter in the customer's favor, Eloranta promises.

Provided the customer is dissatisfied with the bank's decision, the customer has the option to take the matter to Fine for consideration.

Resolution policy is well-established in the industry in that the log data showing the customer's approval can be used to show that the payment is not unauthorized and remains the customer's responsibility.

Fine's solutions are recommendations that banks almost always follow. Nordea has always followed them.

If the decision is not satisfactory, the customer can file a lawsuit against the bank in court.