President of the Economic and Social Council of Spain
Antón CostasPresident of the Economic and Social Council of SpainThe prestigious economist asks to flee from “fatalism”, since he believes it is possible, after past experiences, to face a future new crisis without “inflicting pain”
“If there is anyone who knows economics in this country, it is him.” This is how they presented yesterday the paper by Antón Costas, president of the Economic and Social Council of Spain, at the I Congress of the Social Economy, held these days in Murcia. Industrial engineer, economist, professor of Economic Policy at the University of Barcelona and former president of the Circle of Economy, his extensive experience has led him to maintain, in a situation of uncertainty such as the current one, a somewhat optimistic perspective: «There is room and knowledge accumulated during the management of past crises to avoid the pain inflicted on families – at least the weakest – with previous prescriptions, such as those of 2008».
– Are there reasons for pessimism to take over society in the face of what is coming this winter?
-We must fight against the fatalism of thinking that everything is going to go wrong, because things will be complicated, but not apocalyptic. We are facing a different crisis and we cannot apply the same policies that were applied in a situation without war, as is already being seen. We have gained good experience in recent years of how a crisis is managed. Who was going to bet before Covid on the implementation of a fund like the ‘Next Generation’? And the conflict in Ukraine is leading Europe to come together with new industrial and defense programs. The poet Holderlin said that ‘wherever danger grows, what saves us also grows’.
INFLATION
“It is logical that a certain discomfort is expressed in the streets, as in France, but we are capable of managing it”
-Mobilizations have already begun to be seen in France due to the rise in inflation. Can they be extended to countries like Spain?
-A certain discomfort is logical that it exists and that it is expressed in the streets, but I insist on the idea again: today we are capable of better managing these situations of discomfort. An example of this is the 2020 pandemic crisis, which generated a small recession caused by the pandemic that was very short-lived. In a crisis, what is very important for a country is to have cost sharing rules, to avoid an intense and dramatic impact, and I think that is what we will do in Europe; is my hope and prognosis. The ERTES were a magnificent example of this.
-Should families follow any instructions to better cope with the upcoming situation?
-There are families who cannot save. The recommendation we make is not for them, since what needs to be done is to help them, either by maintaining benefits and adapting them to the impact of inflation, or in the case of employment, maintaining it, even when economic activity may be interrupted, although even in the least hopeful forecasts, net employment will continue to increase.
–Does a new social front open with the rise in mortgages?
–A front is opened to negotiate solutions that will temporarily prevent the rise in rates generated by the European Central Bank’s policy – which seeks to curb inflation – from having repercussions on the most fragile families. I believe that it is being negotiated and I believe that something will be achieved. We must make our political, collective and business life more sophisticated than it has been in the past and those responsible for economic policies must act like surgeons, who know how to operate avoiding pain, even more so in a scenario with widespread resentment due to the existing inequality and the lack of prosperity, which has generated some support for authoritarian formations.
MEASURES
“We must help those families who cannot save while maintaining benefits and employment”
–What role does taxation play in these solutions and what should be the path to follow for this policy, given the debate on tax increases and decreases?
-In the future we will see a greater role of the state in the economy. Perhaps what happened in the United Kingdom with the Fiscal Plan initially presented gives us a clue as to where we have to go, since it has shown that a massive cut in taxes is not appropriate and poses serious problems for social, political and economic stability. economy. Taxes are the cost of a civilized society, which you cannot have without taxes, but it is true that the tax structure is varied and allows games with which to alleviate an emergency situation of certain households and companies, at the same time that income is increased with taxes such as the so-called ‘green’ ones, which in the case of Spain are, in comparative terms, lower than in Europe, something consistent with the decarbonisation policy.
-There has been talk, however, that in the current situation the latter should be put on ‘stand-by’?
-There is going to be a search in our societies for these long-term goals, but in the short term we have to continue living, so we are going to have to face a balance game.
“New Social Contract”
–The operation of social economy companies could be a small-scale example of this income pact that has been proposed this year. Necessary?
– Cooperatives are, due to the type of work they create and their territorial implementation, the third pillar of a country’s prosperity. We must remember that inequality is the solvent of the social contract. Maintaining this glue not only obliges us to an income agreement, but also to formulate a new contract and invest to avoid the rupture of the energy and food supply chains; supply must be ensured. We need to be subtle as we were with the Moncloa Pacts, when policies were introduced that improved real wages, reducing family spending, such as public education, universal health and unemployment benefits.
–Can the rise in costs such as energy affect economies such as Spain and the Region of Murcia, which are considered largely based on their competitiveness?
–Sometimes myths and fallacies arise that must be clarified. The Spanish economy is competitive and innovative, because otherwise it would be inexplicable, because we have had a surplus in the balance of payments for two decades. The companies that export do not do so with low or precarious wages, according to what the data tells us. We do not compete on prices but on quality and competitiveness and, furthermore, we are more innovative than what the rankings say, since we confuse R&D with innovation, which is a more diverse process that affects more issues such as organization of the production.
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