At Markus Lanz’s, Thursday’s round has fun despite the high density of empty phrases and tough debates. CSU man Martin Huber is meanwhile attacking the Greens.
Hamburg – The CSU general secretary starts with Markus Lanz on the green energy policy. Martin Huber, Söder’s man for fine and coarse things, describes his state as particularly progressive right from the start. Bavaria is the nation’s leader when it comes to renewable energies. He has to listen to criticism that the federal state only ends up in the middle of the field when it comes to wind energy. And journalist Kristina Dunz complains: “For you, wind energy is not one of them.” But Huber counters that “due to our strength in hydropower and biomass, we have over 50 percent base load capacity for renewables”. One shouldn’t forget that “we generate more electricity from biomass alone than the whole of Hesse from renewables.”
These guests discussed with Markus Lanz:
- Pauline Bruenger (climate activist)
- Kristina Dunz (journalist, RND)
- Martin Huber (CSU General Secretary)
- John Lackman (Dipl. Engineer, former -2008 Chairman of the Federal Association of Renewable Energies, founder of WestfalenWind)
Climate activist Pauline Brünger criticizes that e-fuels are “a fairytale solution”. “We have proven technologies that we know work,” she says, but Huber interjects: “The combustion engine, for example.” The group laughs. Despite all contentious arguments, the guests are exuberant and cheerful. There is a lot of joking around.
Moderator Lanz wants to soften the traffic light government’s plans to ban gas heating by law within a few years. This doesn’t mean “that all heaters have to be replaced immediately,” he says. But Huber sees a “heating socialism” in the project. And he criticizes Robert Habeck, the Federal Minister for Economic Affairs and Climate Protection, who describes nuclear power plants in the war zone of Ukraine as safe, but at the same time takes them off the grid in Germany. “It’s the Greens that are extending the fossil age,” says Huber. “The Greens are getting out of nuclear power and digging for coal! That’s downright absurd! For ideological reasons, the Greens refuse to leave the three nuclear power plants that we still have connected to the grid any longer.” Lanz initially calls the argument “whataboutism”, but less than two minutes later he agrees with the CSU politician: “There you have it one point!”
Huber’s catchphrase of “home energies” goes down well with engineer Johannes Lackmann. It is reminiscent of Robert Habeck’s handshake gesture in Qatar last year. “Domestic energies are those that we don’t have to import,” says Lackmann, “the human rights issues alone would be reason enough to stop importing energy resources from certain countries so that we don’t support regimes and autocrats that we don’t want to support at all.” “, adds Dunz.
“How many wind turbines did you set up in Bavaria last year?” Lanz still wants to know from Huber. He answers with a counter question: “Do you know who files the most lawsuits against wind turbines? These are the nature conservation associations.” Lanz has to laugh: “I haven’t had anyone here who absolutely doesn’t answer any questions.” The two still have fun together.
Huber: The chemical industry alone would need as much electricity as all of Germany does now
Huber explains that he doesn’t want to look at renewable energies one-sidedly, but “as a mix”. Hydrogen also plays a role, especially in the chemical industry with its high energy requirements. It’s difficult when “we convert all industrial processes to electricity,” he criticizes. Because this “would mean that the chemical industry alone would need as much electricity as the whole of Germany now.” Lanz agrees: “BASF alone as much as all of Denmark, you have to be clear about that.”
For Dunz, however, Bavarian energy policy has failed. She speaks of a “shambles”. “Mr. Söder hugged the trees for a while, now they’re starting to hug the wind turbines.” Brünger, on the other hand, criticizes the Berlin traffic light government in general and “that you have two parties who obviously don’t care about the climate.”
Dunz accuses Huber of leading the Bavarian state election campaign. She calls for more bans. One must “talk about a new concept of prosperity. We need a speed limit,” she says. “Electricity, gas, heat – I have to be willing to give up other things for that.” Dunz cannot understand Huber’s insistence on nuclear energy: “You prefer the risk of a meltdown after so many years?” she asks. Huber counters: “Now look at how the German nuclear power plants are equipped and what safety standards they have.” Lanz contradicts: “It’s also difficult to contextualize it that way.” But Huber adds: Bavaria is “the economic powerhouse of the republic” and accounts for almost 60 percent of the state financial equalization. “Our economic strength helps the whole country. That’s why your argument and your thesis is an absolute impertinence.”
Huber describes the fact that the CSU would ever coalition with the Greens as “completely impossible”: “We won’t do it.” Lanz wants to know whether Markus Söder will run as a candidate for chancellor. Huber: “I understand the question very well, because the condition of the traffic light is so disastrous that the question really comes to mind.”
Conclusion of the talk with Markus Lanz
Controversial in substance, but exuberant in tone. Despite differences in content, the group found a relaxed way of dealing with each other. The climate activist Brünger showed little interest in details. Her blanket criticism countered Huber’s Bavarian success stories. She finally gave up: “I really don’t care how well you compare to other countries”. (Michael Goermann)
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