Daniel Zohar Zonshine says that the new governments of Brazil and Israel will be able to deepen the economic relationship
Israel’s ambassador to Brazil, Daniel Zohar Zonshine, says that the use of Israeli flags by right-wing movements in the country does not have Israeli support. He claims that seeing them used in the invasion of national symbols, as occurred last Sunday (8.jan.2023), is a reason for sadness for the country.
“It’s not something we encourage, suggest or condone. But it’s a flag, and we can’t control it. We are not happy to see Israeli flags carried by people invading symbols of the country, such as the STF, the Palace of Planalto and the Congress”, said in an interview with Power360.
In the interview given to Power360 on Thursday (12.jan), Zonshine stated that Israel can help, with technologies, in the prevention of situations like this.
“In areas such as defense and security, we saw the need to expand technology a few days ago to identify people and improve heritage protection measures. Israel has technologies that create layers of defense that prevent security, health, and transport systems from failing to function at times when they are required.”declared the Israeli ambassador.
Zonshine is 64 years old and took over the embassy in August 2021. Before that, he served in the country from 1998 to 2002. He spent 11 years in the military, where he was a pilot and then worked with computers, still in the 1980s. holds a master’s degree in defense studies. He has 3 children.
He is nominated for the diplomatic career in the position he holds in Brazil. In Israel, the government has autonomy for 11 political appointments among the country’s 108 diplomatic representations. His predecessor in office, Yossi Shelley, was Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s political appointee. Today, Shelley is the Israeli prime minister’s chief of staff.
READ THE INTERVIEW
THE Power360 reproduce below excerpts from the interview with Daniel Zohar Zonshine:
Power360: What changes in the relationship between Brazil and Israel with the arrival of Lula to the Presidency?
Daniel Zohar Zonshine: There will be changes in some aspects of the relationship. They are good and will stay that way. Relations between countries have different layers: politics, economy, defense, culture. Politically, Brazil is returning to its traditional view of Israel and the Middle East. Economically, last year [2022], we had a peak of nearly $4 billion in bilateral trade. And then we don’t include services. It is in the interest of both sides that it stays that way. Our job at the embassy is to separate the relationships between the people who hold the head of government and the relationship between countries. We want the relationship to be based on interests, values, mutual benefits, not just this ideology or that one.
Power360: The 1st note from the Itamaraty showed a change in Brazil’s relationship with Israel. It was a criticism of the trip by the Minister of National Security, Itamar Ben Gvir, to the Temple Mount, or Esplanada das Mesquitas.
Daniel Zohar Zonshine: THE Temple Mount is a holy place in Jerusalem. It’s a sensitive topic for us. It’s been there long before Christianity and Islam [é lá que foi construído o Templo de Salomão]. We sent a note to Itamaraty saying that if there will be neutrality, as they said, the name of the place should have been mentioned in Hebrew too, since they used Arabic. Or else a neutral name, like Temple Mount or the holy site of Jerusalem. We feel that we have been diminished. Just because there are mosques there doesn’t mean there wasn’t something there before. Jerusalem is made up of layers of millennia of history, one on top of the other. This is the holiest place for Jews around the world and this should be respected without prejudice to other beliefs.
Power360: The Brazilian government announced the withdrawal of the Israeli ambassador, General Gerson Menandro Garcia de Freitas, appointed by former President Jair Bolsonaro. How did you receive the news?
Daniel Zohar Zonshine: The ambassador was a political appointment, not a career diplomat. It seems to me that it is the government’s right to replace him with someone who represents their views. As far as I know, he did a good job, he was very active. In Israel we have a quota of 11 political appointments among the 108 embassies and consulates we have. The prime minister can appoint people from outside the diplomatic service. My predecessor, Yossi Shelley, was a political appointee. Today, he is the Director General of the Prime Minister’s Office. [equivalente ao chefe de Gabinete no Brasil]. Very high and very important position.
Power360: Last year [2022], bilateral trade broke a record. But it was a result, in part, of the war in Ukraine. Brazil exported oil and imported fertilizers. Will it continue to grow?
Daniel Zohar Zonshine: The war created a crisis in global markets. But as far as I know, Israel supplies 5% or 6% of Brazil’s fertilizers. Potassium, for example, is almost 15%. I hope it continues, regardless of the war in Ukraine, which doesn’t seem to be coming to an end. The idea is to maintain what is already in progress. The need for fertilizers will not fall. We want to meet the demand. The sale of oil, from Petrobras, grew a lot last year. We haven’t met our alternative sources goals yet, and oil is still important.
Power360: And what other areas can grow?
Daniel Zohar Zonshine: We want to focus on areas that are in demand in Brazil in which Israel stands out. Some ongoing examples are fertilizers, agricultural inputs, water treatment, from desalination to improved use. But also expand to medical devices and technologies to care for the environment. As Israel is very small, it is very attentive to environmental issues so that we can continue to have a collective life. Adaptations are necessary, given the size of Brazil. Areas such as defense and security saw the need to expand technology a few days ago to identify people and improve heritage protection measures. Israel has technologies that create layers of defense that prevent security, health, transport systems from not working at the times they are demanded. These are cybernetic and physical systems defense services.
Power360: Would this technology help the government to identify the people who took part in the invasions of the headquarters of the Three Powers?
Daniel Zohar Zonshine: There are facial recognition solutions on the market. Some of them are from Israel, but not only. It would reduce recognition time.
Power360: Israel has developed very efficient urban navigation systems. An example is the Waze app.
Daniel Zohar Zonshine: Mobile Eye is another example. It is a company that works with automobiles. It manages to predict risks of traffic accidents, alerting both cars and pedestrians. That company was sold to Intel for $50 billion. We are constantly looking for areas that may be relevant, trying to bring companies and investment, despite the Brazil cost. We want to reduce barriers, in addition to distance, language and time zone. We have an agreement with Mercosur and we want to discuss with Brazil to reduce part of the barriers that still exist. More investments would come.
Power360: What is your view on the January 8th protests? Netanyahu criticized the acts through the Twitter profile.
Daniel Zohar Zonshine: We we publish on monday [9.jan.2023] our positioning against invasions. We don’t think it’s a correct way to behave and solve problems or promote ideas. That’s what we have to say.
Power360: Right-wing demonstrators often use Israeli flags at protests. Does Israel approve of these gestures?
Daniel Zohar Zonshine: We observe this practice, especially in political demonstrations by right-wing people. It is not something we encourage, suggest or condone. But it’s a flag, and we can’t control it. We are not happy to see Israeli flags carried by people invading symbols of the country, such as the STF, the Palace of Plateau and Congress. But it’s hard to prevent. It’s not like we were asked if it was ok on our side. I confess that I do not understand the reasons for this.
Power360: The new government of Israel is to the right of the previous one. Lula, on the other hand, is to Bolsonaro’s left. How will the relationship be between the 2?
Daniel Zohar Zonshine: I don’t know on a personal level. But I see 2 leaders of countries that seek good for their people. Even if they are not friends, they can still have a good and productive relationship. It’s what both countries want. We have to make the best of relationships, not live in the past.
Power360: In Israel, Netanyahu is trying to pass a reform of the judiciary, which has been the target of opposition protests. They say it will reduce your autonomy. Are these reviews correct?
Daniel Zohar Zonshine: Some of the elements of the reform raised concerns in parts of Israel. We are a democracy and people show their concern. We will have to wait and see what changes and what steps are taken to carry them out. I hope they do not harm the balance between the 3 Powers. The government is still in its infancy and things are still being discussed. I hope that there is no political or societal damage.
Power360: You arrived in Brazil in the previous government of both Israel and Brazil. Do you intend to stay in the country?
Daniel Zohar Zonshine: When I was appointed, the prime minister was Netanyahu. It was in November 2020. Turns out it took time for the government to approve. It came out only in the government of [Naftali] Bennet. There were 35 or 36 ambassadors awaiting approval. Afterwards, the nomination was sent to the destination country, Brazil, to receive the Agrément [licença para o embaixador atuar no país]. The Brazilian government did not quickly concede. It’s not common, but it happens. So I don’t think there will be any changes. We still don’t know who the current government’s political appointments are. But I don’t think I’m leaving here. I’m a career diplomat.
Power360: Was there frustration in Israel over Bolsonaro promising, but not delivering, the move of the embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem?
Daniel Zohar Zonshine: Was a prime minister’s priority. We had some countries that changed. It was a campaign promise. We expected it to happen, but the Brazilian decision was not to go. We will be happy if it happens in the future, but I don’t think it will happen in this government. Jerusalem is the capital of Israel. I know that most embassies are in Tel Aviv, but that doesn’t change that fact. We accept that Brasilia is the capital of Brazil, we would never place the embassy in Rio.
Power360: Recently Ilan Goldfajn, president of the IDB, was the target of comments considered anti-Semitic by economist Paulo Nogueira Batista. What is your assessment of this episode?
Daniel Zohar Zonshine: It surprises me that people think the way he does. It is typical anti-Semitic and racist thinking. And the fact that it was said publicly by someone considered a leading economist shows that people are not only racist, but feel free to express racism. I believe that this crooked thinking is not completely eradicable. But it is our role as a community, and not just the Jewish community, and that of the Brazilian authorities to condemn and prevent these things. In Israel there are laws against hate speech and anti-Semitism. It is important to deepen education about the holocaust, antisemitism and all kinds of racism. Now there is a Ministry of Human Rights and I believe that part of its job will be to fight against racism and hate speech. We hope that anti-Semitism is on the agenda.
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