Wolfgang Kubicki is in a rage with “Markus Lanz” – because of Corona, Spahn’s plans for the fall and a “mandatory vaccination through the back door”.
Hamburg – The “Markus Lanz” group on Wednesday evening only consists of three guests, but talk host Lanz uses the opportunity for an intensive discussion with the politician Wolfgang Kubicki (FDP). He recently had the book “The crushed freedom. How a virus undermines the rule of law ”published. Host Lanz is already working on the subtitle of his work. He thinks the rule of law works. “Actually,” explains Kubicki, it should have been “How a virus threatens the rule of law”. But in the end the publisher decided differently. Lanz apparently doesn’t believe a word of Kubicki: “You can’t tell me that a man in your league has a title imprinted on him by the publisher.”
Corona measures are causing a heated debate at “Markus Lanz”
At its core, Kubicki is concerned with the question of the political end of the corona pandemic. “If I were Chancellor,” he explains, “I would do the same as our Danish friends from the Social Democrats. They declared five weeks ago: We have vaccinated all over 50-year-olds, so that the vulnerable groups are to some extent protected from developing severe disease or experiencing deaths. There can also be courses among the people below, but they correspond to a moderate flu, at least no severe courses and no deaths. “
“That’s wrong, that’s wrong,” the virologist Helga Rübsamen-Schaeff wants to interfere, but Kubicki raises his voice: “That is your assessment, but we are currently not seeing that the incidence figures in Denmark have increased in the last five weeks The ceiling is shot. ”“ But it is also a much sparsely populated country, ”the journalist Gregor Peter Schmitz points out. Talkmaster Lanz shows the Danish Corona curve on the monitors. “The incidence is low,” Rübsamen-Schaeff acknowledges, but refers to Great Britain: “The virus shot up, the hospital beds are being occupied again, the deaths have gone up.”
Vaccinations are making progress – is this missing the legal basis for protective measures?
Kubicki would nevertheless “follow the Danish model. Because I believe that this strengthens people’s personal responsibility. That they understand when they run the risk of becoming infected, behave more sensibly than is currently the case. “The Bundestag Vice President also refers to the legal purpose of the measures:” The task under the Infection Protection Act is not to avoid infection. According to the motto No-Covid: We will stick with these measures until the virus no longer exists. That’s crazy, because it will be endemic and we will have to live with it all the time. “
“The task,” explains FDP man Kubicki, “Paragraph 5 of the Infection Protection Act is: to prevent overloading the health system. It doesn’t even occur to us to say: In the autumn everyone will have to get a flu vaccination because we have severe courses and deaths there too. Nobody has come up with the idea yet. As long as it is certain that the health system can cope with it, there is actually no longer any legal basis for the corresponding measures. Or I have to say: We are simply acting without a legal basis because it serves to be effective. “
“I would be arguing with Mr Kubicki now,” says talk show host Lanz, but Rübsamen-Schaeff holds against it: “This is about human lives and cases of illness, I cannot accept that,” she says. Schmitz, on the other hand, refers to the state’s protective mandate, from which the measures are derived. “But”, replies Kubicki, “it does not consist in protecting every individual from infection.” He points out the necessary legal basis, which is increasingly less given: “If the state makes all possibilities available, for example through Vaccination, then the subject is settled. “
“Markus Lanz” – these were his guests on August 4th:
- Wolfgang Kubicki (FDP) – politician
- Gregor Peter Schmitz – journalist
- Prof. Helga Rübsamen-Schaeff – virologist
The discussion paper presented by Health Minister Jens Spahn (CDU) for the next Prime Minister’s Conference (MPK) caused a stir on Wednesday because it formulated the idea of only allowing those who have recovered and vaccinated, but not those who have been tested, access to certain facilities. Wolfgang Kubicki calmly waves it aside: “That is legally inadmissible, it won’t happen, definitely not. First of all, the federal states would have to implement this. The belief that if Jens Spahn publishes a paper that it is a legal basis is naive. The belief that if the MPK and the Federal Chancellor decide something, then it is already law, is also naive. Laws are made by parliaments and the regulations in the countries have to be passed by them and have to be passed through the cabinets there. “
Wolfgang Kubicki talks to himself in a rage at “Markus Lanz”: “And then the pregnant women are no longer allowed to go to the restaurant?”
At the private level, however, hoteliers, restaurant or cinema operators could very well decide that they only want completely vaccinated guests. Because the state is currently encouraging the private sector to do so, Kubicki says he is creating “a de facto compulsory vaccination. This is in the infection control manual. He claims private individuals because he does not want to order the vaccination obligation to actually enforce it. This is called compulsory vaccination through the back door, definitely. ”Schmitz objects to this:“ Take the simple example of road traffic. Everyone can decide for themselves whether to get a driver’s license. If he doesn’t get a driver’s license, he’s not allowed to drive. Because we as a society have decided that it is too dangerous and that the risks are too great if someone were to drive without a license. And it’s similar here. You then have to accept that you are subject to certain restrictions. “
In the video: Kubicki is furious about the new Corona guidelines
Schmitz explains that incentives must be created in this way in order to achieve the highest possible vaccination rate. Kubicki then talks to himself in a rage: “And the pregnant women are then no longer allowed to go to the restaurant because they cannot be vaccinated? The children are no longer allowed to go to the restaurant? That is an educational aspect that has nothing to do with infection protection. Just like the curfew had nothing to do with infection control. That was an improved possibility of surveillance. ”“ That was what, please? ”Lanz hooks and approaches Kubicki:“ But now this is that sound again, which pretends that we are here in such a dictatorship. ”Kubicki does without it, To make this point again, he prefers to repeat his core argument: “We can do anything, but we need a legal basis for everything. Simply to say that it is efficient, it serves a specific purpose, is thankfully not enough in a constitutional state like ours. ”“ It is true, ”Schmitz also concedes,“ one must not turn people into objects, not even for ones a good thing.”
“Markus Lanz” – the conclusion of the show
The “Markus Lanz” group discusses the corona and vaccination situation in Germany. The book by the politician Wolfgang Kubicki serves as a starting point for the debate, in which the journalist Gregor Peter Schmitz and the virologist Prof. Helga Rübsamen-Schaeff rarely agree with the author. Talk host Lanz tries to mediate between the Poles, but finds himself repeatedly in Kubicki’s argumentative corner.