For a long time it was a cliché image: American television presenter on the roof terrace of the Carlton Hotel in Moscow, with the Kremlin as a backdrop. Snowflakes flutter around and land on shiny hair. In 2024, however, the picture is a novelty: there are few Western journalists in the country. American media personality Tucker Carlson visited the Russian capital earlier this week to interview President Vladimir Putin. The broadcast came online at midnight Dutch time.
Former Fox News presenter Tucker Carlson appeared in the dock last year in a defamation case surrounding the American presidential elections that was settled for more than $700 million. His “escalating toxicity, including an undercurrent of white supremacy and a penchant for demeaning women and minorities” cost eventually gave him his job. But on YouTube he still makes programs that are popular with viewers on the right-wing part of the political spectrum.
At the beginning of the interview, Putin takes off his watch and places it on the table, like someone getting ready to fight. Carlson opens with the question: “On February 22, 2022, you addressed the country and asked [….] that you acted because the US was going to launch a surprise attack on your country through NATO. To American audiences that sounds paranoid. Why did you think that?” Putin sighs in response: “It is not that America is going to launch a surprise attack on Russia, is this a talk show or a serious conversation?” Carlson laughs convulsively.
Carlson will not get an answer to the question. The president begins an hour-long treatise on the history of Russia and Ukraine rewritten by the Kremlin – through the legendary father of the Rus, Roerik (ninth century). Yaroslav the Wise (tenth century). Genghis Khan (twelfth and thirteenth centuries). The Polish drive for expansion in the area where Ukraine is now located (seventeenth century). Tucker Carlson's distinguished frown from the promotional material has turned into a bewildered look: “I've lost track of what time period we are in now.” And: “I don't see how this is relevant.” But Putin is pushing ahead. The gist: Ukrainians and Russians are one people in one country.
The story is not new. The Kremlin published Putin's view About the historical unity of Russians and Ukrainians already in 2021. What is striking is the flexibility with which the 71-year-old Russian president delivers his speech. He quickly switches between thoughtfulness, enthusiasm, irritability, jokes, nonchalance and strictness.
Moving images of Putin's public appearances have always been fodder for Kremlin watchers. It attempts to answer questions about the health, psychological state and position of the president, in a country where a free press and public debate have been put under lock and key.
In Russia, images surrounding the president are strictly controlled and constructed. Kremlin watching therefore always has an element of reading tea leaves. Still, it must be said: in contrast to some images in the past two years, the president here looks vital, mentally sharp and in his element. The question is whether his message will get across, the American public will not have sat down for a history lecture. In the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries, the US was still British. Russia's claim to Ukrainian territory based on an agreement at the time should raise questions in the US.
Direct attack
Only after an hour and ten minutes does the interview for which Carlson seems to have come begin. Putin makes a direct attack on US support for the war in Ukraine. “Don't you have anything better to do? You have problems at the border. Problems with migration. Problems with national debt, 33 trillion. Don't you have anything better to do than fight in Ukraine? […] start looking for a solution.” He flawlessly pokes his finger at the sore points that are also raised by Trump's party – these are the same arguments that Republicans have been putting forward to block the approval of aid financing for Ukraine for months now.
Putin repeats the same rhetorical trick shortly afterwards with regard to Germany. Carlson says the Germans “clearly know” that Nord Stream has been blown up by its own allies and that it could massively damage their economy. “The fact that they are silent about this is very confusing to me,” says Carlton. “That confuses me too,” Putin replies. Then he presents a fat sausage that Germany can divide: if the country would think more about itself, it could simply let cheap Russian gas pass through. This way the economy remains competitive.
Putin guides his American guest through all the sticky corners of the spider web that his propaganda machine has woven in recent years. He repeatedly mentions the peace talks that took place in 2022. Russian propaganda here has constructed the narrative that “a deal was on the table” but that Ukraine walked away at the last minute, under pressure from the UK and the US.
Although the precise content of the talks has not been made public, it is more likely that the deal fell through because Russia's demands for Ukraine were unacceptable. This also happened at a time when the extent of the terror and carnage in the Kyiv suburb of Butcha became clear, following the Russian withdrawal from that area. Zelensky said this made it clear once and for all that there could be no negotiations with Russia.
The Russian president allows himself another sneer at Carlson. As soon as he calls the demonstrations on Maidan Square in Kyiv in 2013 and 2014 a CIA plot and a coup (ignoring the elections that were subsequently organized), he says: “[De CIA] is the organization you previously wanted to join. We can thank God that that did not happen” but “a job is a job of course”.
Poland
Poland suffered several times in Putin's account. Historically, according to Putin, the country has both mistreated Ukrainians and inspired nationalistic ideas. When asked whether Russia is considering attacking the neighboring NATO country, Putin answers ominously: no, unless they attack us. Although Russia fired the first shots in Ukraine in 2022, Putin insists that Ukraine started the war.
Tucker Carlson interviewed the Russian president as Putin carries out an invasion of a neighboring country that has killed not only thousands of Ukrainian citizens but also at least tens of thousands of Russian soldiers. “Our duty is to inform people,” Carlson justified before his interview. “No one tells the Americans the truth,” he continues, saying that Ukrainians are often interviewed, but Russians are not.
The comment rubbed many journalists the wrong way. Lots of interviewers pointed out their fruitless efforts in the past two years to get an interview with Putin – all rejected by Moscow, as even Kremin spokesman Dmitry Peskov commented recognized. According to Reporters Without Borders (RSF), 25 journalists and four media workers are currently in custody in Russia. One of these is Carlson's compatriot, Wall Street Journalreporter Evan Gershkovich.
Towards the end of the interview, Carlson briefly casts himself as a diplomat: “As a sign of your decency, would you release Gershkovich so that we can bring him back to the United States?” Putin answers that the secret services of the
US and Russia are in conclave about the American journalist. The most obvious is a possible prisoner exchange. “I do not rule out that he will return to his motherland.”
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