Giuliano Pisapia, 360 ° interview with Italian Affairs: Sassoli, Metsola, Berlusconi, Draghi, Cartabia, Lucano and the future of Lombardy
Lawyer, deputy and later Mayor of Milan, Giuliano Pisapia since 2019 he has been a member of the European Parliament. Elected to the list of the Democratic Party, he had the opportunity to work side by side with David Sassoli, whose untimely death has aroused great emotion not only among our compatriots and in his political area of reference. The interview with Italian business it starts from here: “I have just returned from a plenary session in which a truly poignant commemoration was dedicated to Sassoli”, says Pisapia. “In his memory there was great unity, with the interventions of Macron, of representatives of the EPP, in addition of course to that of Letta: everyone recognized what David represented for us and the void that his death left. He has really done a lot, both for Europe and for our country ”.
However, your personal relationship with Sassoli was born earlier, right?
“Yes, I knew him before I became an MEP. When with ‘Campo Progressista’ I tried to unite a broad left and center-left front, I often confronted him, both in Brussels and in Rome, and we also took initiatives together. Sassoli really leaves a lot of regret, but I want to remember three concrete things that the European Parliament would not have been able to do without him. In the first place, it gave us the possibility to operate even in full pandemic, organizing the vote even remotely so that it was safe, secret and transparent. A method that we have also used this week for the choice of his successor, of the deputies and of the Quaestors, without the slightest controversy: a method that we should also imitate in Italy for the election of the President of the Republic. Then I want to mention Next Generation Eu, which without Sassoli’s ability and patience in dealing also with political opponents would not have been possible. It would not have been possible to obtain over 200 billion that our country needs to get out of the pandemic crisis and relaunch the economy. The third memory is a battle we have fought together: to impose sanctions on EU countries that violate the rule of law, such as Hungary and Poland. He really left us a lot ”.
What changes with the choice of Roberta Metsola, a very different figure from Sassoli?
“It was possible to find a convergence between political realities that do not always think the same way on the basis of an agreement made in the first part of the mandate and a common program, which is consistent with the values of the PES. Metsola’s first speech as President was very open, even on potentially divisive issues, and he repeatedly reaffirmed the awareness of the fact that he must be able to distinguish between his own personal ideas from those of the European Parliament. If this commitment is maintained, as I believe, further steps can be taken “.
With Von der Leyen at the helm of the European Commission and Lagarde at the helm of the ECB, there is a triad of women at the top of European power: why doesn’t this happen in Italy?
“This trio represents a very strong signal, but even in the vice-presidencies of parliamentary committees there are women who – I stress – are really very competent. They were not chosen as women: they are people who have proven their worth, including the ability to be united and overcome divisions. This is why it was possible to take a step forward, which in Italy we have not yet been able to take ”.
In this regard, what effect did it have on you that in recent weeks the name of a woman you knew very well, namely Letizia Moratti, emerged among the candidates for the Quirinale?
“I prefer not to comment”.
Well, your challenge is now part of history … And it has been written that next year there may even be a “second half”, given that we vote for the presidency of the Lombardy Region …
“(Laughs, ed) I have read it too… Of course it is essential to change things and I will strive to make a contribution in this direction. In Lombardy, after 25 years of center-right, a change is essential on important issues such as health, on which the steps forward that were necessary have not been made “.
Let’s move on to another well-known name: what did you think of Silvio Berlusconi’s new descent into the field?
“I don’t know what pushed him, but I think it’s an attempt to present an image of himself that is different from what most Italians have. I think he will step back, noting that he doesn’t have the numbers, but at the same time giving an indication of who might be the right candidate for him. Berlusconi therefore has the opportunity to present himself as the one who, in fact, brought the new President to the Hill. He is back as a protagonist, which can be done not only by being elected, but also as a king-maker“.
On the other hand, who should the Democratic Party focus on? Everyone names Draghi: is it the right choice for you too?
“As Letta also often says, mentioning names risks burning up high-level personalities. And there are many. The depth of Draghi is indisputable: I was among the first to wish him his descent on the field, because it was essential to take a step forward compared to the previous government. We needed it in terms of international credibility and in fact today we are a point of reference at European level and beyond. We still need Dragons. It is true that there is only one year left for the end of the legislature, but if he were no longer in Palazzo Chigi it would be difficult to find a replacement capable of keeping the balance of such a composite majority. Personally, I find it more difficult to identify an alternative to the Prime Minister than a new President of the Republic “.
So I’ll give you a name: speaking of women, how would you see Marta Cartabia at the Quirinale?
“Well, I respect her very much. I fully share your commitment to justice issues and appreciate your ability to bring about the changes that have been expected for decades. Indeed, I hope that the path will be fully completed. It is not my job to indicate a name for the Quirinale, but I believe that Minister Cartabia is among the figures capable of fulfilling this role, which is fundamental for our country “.
Speaking of justice, in a few days the thirtieth anniversary of the arrest of Mario Chiesa (February 17 ’92, ed.) Marks the beginning of “Tangentopoli”. You were the protagonist in your capacity as a lawyer: what historical considerations do you think should be made in this regard?
“It’s an interesting theme. Going back to talking about it could help all those who had a role in the story to make a self-criticism: journalists, lawyers, magistrates and even politics, of course. Beyond the different opinions, collective reflection would be needed to avoid the repetition of such facts, but above all to make progress on the subject of the rule of law, on the presumption of innocence and therefore on the guarantees for all citizens. Justice must be swift, efficient and guaranteed: for me this is the synthesis of what is still lacking today. To carry out the reforms, the contribution of all those involved is needed, each obviously in its independence “.
Today on the grill is Beppe Grillo. Precisely because you are very guaranteed I do not ask you for an opinion on the specific case, but perhaps a reflection on the crime of trafficking in illicit influences is needed: don’t you think it is even difficult to understand what it is about?
“Yup. In my opinion it was a wrong rule, because it is not clear and therefore can be interpreted in a completely different way from case to case. In our legal system there were already the rules to combat corruption and other misconduct, while this crime does not have the concreteness and consistency that are necessary for such delicate issues. It is a reflection that does not only concern judges, lawyers and politicians, but everyone, because it must be clear what is lawful and what is not. The criminal law must be precise and clear to apply “.
As a lawyer, you defend Mimmo Lucano and said you were confident in the possibility of overturning the first instance sentence, although it was really very heavy. What is your optimism based on?
“The sentence was very heavy, but what gives me hope is the reading of the 900 pages of motivations. Moreover, almost 600 of these pages are full of wiretaps, unusable on the basis of the indications of the joint sections of the Supreme Court. I am confident in a radical change for Mimmo Lucano, to avoid that those who are committed to the good of their community end up in prison. There is also a more general theme that concerns the Mayors, who sometimes risk being prosecuted for initiatives carried out in good faith, thinking about the interests of their citizens ”.
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