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Although each of her phrases dissects a world in flames, her precise and forceful words are a source of relief for many. Especially for the more progressive Argentine society that sees with concern how the welfare state is dismantled day after day. It seems that in the head of María Cristina ‘Marita’ Perceval (Mendoza, 67 years old) All the disciplines she has studied and practiced – philosophy, teaching, diplomacy, politics – come together to give shape to a current and necessary feminist discourse: “Feminism is not an irrational revolution, it is a rebellion with evidence.”
In an interview with América Futura, the president of Feministas Sin Fronteras and former senator of Argentina outlines the recipe of the extreme right (“We are in a world in which hate is the utopia, discrimination is the horizon and denying rights is the strategy”) and is critical of the accusation of gender violence against former president Alberto Fernández. “This is further proof that violence against women does not recognize social classes or power status. Reparations will be needed not only for the victim but for society, to reaffirm the ‘never again’,” she says via video call from Buenos Aires.
Perceval, promoter of Argentina’s trafficking law and the law against gender violence, is doing a scholarship Feminist Foreign Policy Collaborative for senior voices and celebrates that the movement is increasingly intergenerational and political: “We must put the tax system in terms of rights and not privileges.” Minutes before saying goodbye, Perceval apologizes for not being able to “talk about feminism in 140 characters” and tells, laughing, about the campaign against the “femituit”: “We have to have time to reflect. If we think we can fix everything we have on top of us with a tweet, we haven’t understood anything.”
Ask. Argentina has always been a benchmark for feminism in the global south. What has happened for this government, led by the far-right Javier Milei, to end up dismantling the Ministry of Women?
Answer. Rights are acquired through social struggles. They are obviously conquered and recognized by States, but they are not forever. Just like love. They must be cared for and preserved not only from the architecture of the State, but from the passionate and convinced appropriation of society. We knew it, but we had not experienced it; rights acquired over centuries can be lost in an instant. Before there was an agreement that multilateralism was valuable and necessary so that the law of the strongest and the arbitrariness of the arrogant did not mark the destinies of humanity and the fate of the planet. But now we are in a world in which hate is utopia, discrimination is the horizon and denying rights is the strategy. Transnational movements found that the space for action is outside democracy and bypassing the rule of law. In this way they are putting the principle of freedom in jeopardy.
P. Although this is precisely the word that the extreme right appropriates…
R. Yes, it is true. Milei’s freedom is that of extreme individualism, of superlative selfishness and of irresponsible desire. It is the freedom of ‘I do what I want’. Even if it were a rebelliousness that overcomes, it is a destructive ignorance; powers that be that despise democracy and human rights have chosen feminism and the rule of law as adversaries, if not enemies. Shortly after taking office, [Milei] He says: “I am the one who destroys the State from within.” This could be a good exercise in fiction, but it is language legitimized by those in power. The method in the campaign was not to find a superior instance for a country that, yes, had problems. No. The method is the chainsaw and the blender.
P. Do you think Milei reflects the Argentine people?
R. Of course, yes. To a large extent. But not only in Argentina, we see it in Latin America and in European and Asian countries. We are explosive in our demonstrations and we are maradonians… perhaps Milei’s constructed character is more striking. But it is not an originality of Argentina. That is why it is more serious. The world has changed. And the unfulfilled promises of democracy exist. Instead of waiting for the progressiveness of democracy, it was believed that it was a waste of time. It is like with the pandemic, some of us came out saying that we had to build better societies and others came out with the speech of destroying everything.
P. Is feminism an intrinsically left-wing movement?
R. Yes, understanding the left in the plural. Can feminism be anarcho-libertarian? Can it be neo-conservative right-wing? Without being dogmatic, I tell you: no. Because it is not enough for some woman from the neo-liberal right to support abortion if they do not want to touch the financial economic system that governs the world. Feminism is not a thing of pick and choose [de seleccionar lo que te gusta]is a theoretical integrality, an ethical congruence and a political consistency. I do not recognize feminism in the expressions of the neoliberal right.
P. What does the feminist perspective propose in politics?
R. When feminists propose tax reform, we talk about inclusiveness and not discrimination. We say that we are seeing that it is neither sustainable nor egalitarian that the tax collection of the richest 1% of the population is less than that of the poorest 50%. You say, is feminism an irrational revolution? No, it is a rebellion with evidence. This is not happening because it rained last night, it is happening because you have a prevalence of unfair tax systems in Latin America. We want to build a society of care. This transformation also involves thinking about a society that, instead of installing the politics of cruelty, establishes that of cooperation and strategic sustainability. The tax system must be based on rights and not privileges. It is like the issue of evasion. It is not poor women who evade, but the great fortunes. Doing it well would imply collecting 24% more in the region.
P. What specific conflicts or situations would change with this approach?
R. It means deciding where the budget goes. Militarization or peace? What are you going to invest in? Sweden [primer país que declaró su política exterior feminista] Today the government has changed and this policy has been abandoned, but the gender equality measures have not been dismantled. There are twenty countries gathered in New York that are forming an alliance with citizen participation.
P. You are participating in a scholarship for women who have spent their entire lives in activism and feminist politics. How has your perspective changed over the years?
R. The Latin American and Caribbean movement has some exciting achievements to its name. And I notice the change mainly on the street. The Green Tide is an impressive case. When I was a national senator, it was rare to call myself a feminist. That has changed. Now it is a multitudinous and intergenerational movement. In the case of our country, it is transfeminist and feminist. In other countries they have not been able to agree on this alliance. From Latin American feminisms, it has been possible to speak of an intersectionality that goes from class to the choice of gender identity.
P. And how do you see the feminist movement being fractured in terms of gender self-perception?
R. In Argentina, this fracture does not occur. In other countries, it occurs with total ferocity, to generate cancellations on WhatsApp. Having been witches victims of bonfires and stone throwing, we cannot reproduce a model of solution or search for the truth with lynchings. But they cannot ask a movement with the mass appeal of feminism to make us all think the same. Silence is not the way. Silencing differences is not the way. Let the word circulate, it is in the plural and inclusive conversation where we will find not the lowest common denominator but the highest viable common denominator.
P. How do you think former President Alberto Fernández is responding to his ex-wife’s allegations of gender-based violence?
R. What he has to do is go to court. He will need to make reparations not only to the victim but to society. And he has to make reparations to feminism, because it turns out that now feminism is guilty of these situations. Boy, are they clever! This is further proof that violence against women does not recognize social classes or power status or races or religions. It is the revenge of the patriarchy against the damned fact of being a woman. The former president has to take responsibility. All the sisterhood is in favor of an effective and rapid process and that the alleged victim, with quite notable evidence, is compensated.
P. Fernández boasts of having promoted gender policies and says she knows “that in cases like this, the burden of proof is reversed and the man has to prove his innocence.”
R. I would ask the former president not to take credit for achievements that are not his. Because then we will have to thank the patriarchy for the existence of feminism. On the other hand, I think he has taken a bad path by saying, even if it is true, that his ex-partner was suffering psychologically. As for the presumption of innocence, yes. And yes. He will have to show proof of his innocence, it is a legal principle in our country and in international law. It is not the victim who must prove it, but the perpetrator.
P. What would be the exemplary reparation for society, after reparation to the victim?
R. She must apologize. The Argentine State must apologize to reaffirm the never again in a country where every 30 hours a woman is the victim of femicide.
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