“Markus Lanz” discusses the war in Ukraine and discusses the corona pandemic with Minister of Health Lauterbach two days before the mandatory vaccination vote.
Hamburg – At “Markus Lanz” on Tuesday evening (April 6th) the journalist Katrin Eigendorf reports via video from Kyiv* of her visit to the Ukrainian city of Bucha. “What we got to see is a city that was basically in ruins for the most part,” she describes her impressions, which are accompanied by video clips. The fact that Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyj* got an idea of the situation himself was “impressively courageous” given the security situation. He made a very touched and painful impression* and called on the journalists in front of the cameras to take a closer look in Butscha.
Talk show host Markus Lanz brings the political scientist Daniela Schwarzer into the round with the question of whether Russia’s intentions are genocide, as Ukrainian politicians have accused it of. Clarification of the terminology is important, after all, the accusation of genocide was also the reason for NATO to intervene in the Bosnian war. Therefore, Schwarzer replies, what happened in Bucha needs to be worked through. This is already taking place, there are “many on site who are documenting these crimes, which they are trying to understand and ultimately also to determine whether it happened on orders”.
Bucha a genocide? Karl Lauterbach on “Markus Lanz”: “Then it must have consequences”
As a result of the attacks on the civilian population, Ukrainian politicians would come to the conclusion that Russian President Vladimir Putin* “wants to wipe out Ukrainian civilization, that’s been part of his discourse for a long time”. “You have to be careful there,” said Federal Minister of Health Karl Lauterbach* (SPD) when asked by the host. However, if the accusation were to be true, there would be consequences, says Lauterbach: “If it were actually genocide, then of course it would have to have far-reaching consequences. But it is not yet the point where one can say so. It looks like there have been horrific crimes, but whether or not we can legitimately speak of genocide at this point seems uncertain to me.”
Schwarzer says she agrees, but the lessons learned are that the Russian army is ready to commit war crimes on a large scale. Eigendorf then describes this impressively using Butscha as an example: During the week-long siege, the Russian army or mercenaries paid by Russia mistreated civilians there and shot them on the street. Houses that soldiers liked were occupied, their occupants murdered and thrown out of the windows onto the streets. They stayed there for weeks, reports Eigendorf from eyewitness accounts. The reporter says that the fact that Russia is talking about a staging particularly hurts Selenskyj.
Ukraine war: “Markus Lanz” discusses ending the conflict as quickly as possible
Lauterbach defended the fact that the government still wants to avoid a rapid embargo on Russian gas in the style of the government bank: Entire branches of industry are in danger of being irretrievably lost, and there would be many unemployed. Schwarzer and Lanz point out that the forecasts for the economic slump and thus the opinions on this question are currently very different. Schwarzer would like a change in the discourse, as can be observed in Italy, for example – away from the question of economic damage towards a quick end to the Ukraine war*.
The journalist Robin Alexander notes that the German Academy of Sciences Leopoldina was followed on questions of corona policy, but the macroeconomic model calculations of the same institution are now being rejected. Lauterbach puts it into perspective, saying that the findings of the Leopoldina are not disputed at all. However, there is a spectrum of the calculated probabilities and this should be discussed in its entirety. Accordingly, the “worst case” is that Russia unilaterally stops gas supplies and the foreign currency lost “plays no role whatsoever in the war, but we are de-industrializing”.
“Markus Lanz” – these were his guests on April 5th:
- Karl Lauterbach (SPD) – Politician
- Katrin Eigendorf – journalist
- Daniela Schwarzer – Political scientist
- Robin Alexander – journalist
Afterwards, the “Markus Lanz” group will discuss the status quo of the corona pandemic. Lauterbach first explains his announcement on Monday that from May 1st the obligation to isolate infected people and quarantine for contact persons should drop. The intention is to give the “completely overburdened” health authorities more time “to do something more meaningful”. However, because the announcement sent the “devastating signal” that Corona was no longer so dangerous, Lauterbach could not do the isolation order as announced: “That means I will make this point tomorrow that the infected people isolate themselves and no more are requested by the health department, I will collect it again. As a minister, you have to be able to correct things that didn’t go well.”
An official correction will follow on Wednesday, announces Lauterbach. In the case of contact persons in quarantine, he does not think it is necessary to burden health officials with bureaucracy, but: “In isolation, I simply have to acknowledge that the symbolic loss outweighs the practical gain.” The Minister of Health summarizes the role backwards for the ZDF viewers together and explains which regulation should apply in the future: “If someone is sick, has become infected, then the health department will continue to order. If someone is only a contact person and is therefore in quarantine, then you do it yourself. That’s a compromise.”
Mandatory vaccination vote on Thursday – Lauterbach explains to “Markus Lanz” why he thinks compulsory vaccination from the age of 60 is a good compromise
Lauterbach is looking forward to the vote on mandatory vaccinations on Thursday in the Bundestag: “I believe that we will get the mandatory vaccinations through, this compromise proposal that has now been worked out. He says very simply: The vaccination requirement from the age of 60 comes immediately and the vaccination requirement from the age of 18 comes when it is necessary in the autumn and the Bundestag decides it deceased patients would fall into this age group. The SPD politician assumes that this argument also makes sense to the MPs who advocate compulsory vaccination from the age of 18.
“But that’s completely against your own convictions!” bursts out of talkmaster Lanz. He can remember exactly how Lauterbach calculated in an earlier program why the pandemic would get out of hand with compulsory vaccination from the age of 65 and why vaccination was compulsory from the age of 18. The Minister of Health avoids a concrete answer and prefers to explain why he is in favor of the present compromise: “I really always try to get the best out of the population. If I were completely rigorous and dogmatically said it has to be 18 – I’d rather make vaccination compulsory from 60 and save people with it!”
With “Markus Lanz”: Will Lauterbach resign if the obligation to vaccinate fails?
Lanz insists that Lauterbach is acting against his personal convictions. He counters: “My conviction is always to get the maximum out of people.” The moderator continues: “And that’s the maximum now?” Lauterbach throws his hands in the air and explains that the maxim has always been as many as possible to protect people. Alexander jumps to Lanz’s side and wants to know how Lauterbach will react if the vote on mandatory vaccination doesn’t go in his favor. Is there even a resignation of the health minister in the room? Lauterbach declines: “No. I wouldn’t even have a reason. Because then it would go on. It is quite clear that that would be a bitter defeat for me. But I would have to take responsibility if I had made a serious mistake myself.”
“Markus Lanz” – The conclusion of the show
“Markus Lanz” is divided into two parts on Tuesday evening: The first half of the program deals with the Ukraine war, the journalist Katrin Eigendorf reports from Kyiv and describes her impressions of the Ukrainian city of Bucha. The fact that talk show host Markus Lanz asked his colleague whether she was making herself part of “Ukrainian propaganda” got the host smacked in the face by his viewers on Twitter. Political scientist Daniela Schwarzer calls for more decisive action by the West.
In the second part of the program, moderator Lanz and journalist Robin Alexander discuss the situation of the corona crisis with Federal Minister of Health Karl Lauterbach (SPD). “I’m constantly trying to optimize the fight against the pandemic,” Lauterbach justifies his course and announces that he wants to partially withdraw the isolation order that was only announced the day before. (Hermann Racke) *Merkur.de is an offer from IPPEN.MEDIA.
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