There are only 12 days left until the fateful deadline of blocking of layoffs. A theme which, also in the light of the proposed changes presented by the majority forces, continues to be divisive in the center-left. With the Pd, on the one hand, which marries the line of selectivity and the Five Stars movementon the other hand, it rejects a setting from Ateco codes. Affaritaliani.it addressed the thorny knot with the pentastellata senator, Nunzia Catalfo. L’former Minister of Labor in Count two, interviewed by our newspaper, also talks about Basic income, a measure of which she was godmother and which she defends from anyone who tries to pick her up: “It must be implemented, rather than dismantled”, he stressed. But Catalfo also has his say on pension reform, also because it is exit staircase from Quota 100 will be another node that will soon come to a head: “The Commission that I had set up, with social partners, Mef and Accounting and which was just taking care of gathering the various requests and formulating a proposal, should be re-established immediately”.
Senator Catalfo, June 30 is upon us, but still a point of fall on the redundancy block has not been found. The amendments to the Sostegni bis by the majority forces show blatantly that there is no harmony. How does it come out?
It comes out by finding a mediation, listening to the demands of both the trade unions and companies. We must not create conflicts but find, as I have always tried to do as a minister, a point of fall. Only in this way can such a complex situation be faced.
In the meantime, however, with respect to the Democratic Party, the Movement rejects the criterion of selectivity.
Yes. I consider it a mistake to intervene with selective measures, with a setting based on Ateco codes, as also explained by Giuseppe Conte. And the reason is simple: looking at a single sector, there is a risk of losing sight of the supply chain connected to it. This is the reason why I have never used a selectivity of this kind.
What would he do then?
I would extend the free Covid cashier and the blocking of layoffs until 1 September, in order to be able to gradually check what is happening in the meantime in the world of work and, if necessary, intervene. It is in this direction that the amendments of the Movement go. Then if it were to be found that beyond September there are still companies that are struggling, and therefore operate selectively, the only parameter that I would take into consideration is that of the drop in turnover.
Meanwhile, the unions have called for a mobilization. Is it a sign that the work of the Government and of Andrea Orlando, who took his place at the Ministry, is discontenting the world of work or rather a lack of listening?
The unions carry out their demands. The fear of job loss can be shared. I can’t give you an answer because I’m no longer in the government. What I can tell you is that, especially in such complex moments, conflicts must be avoided. The divergent positions were also there when I was in the Ministry and what I always did was listen as much as possible and try to find mediation.
There is also debate on the hypothesis of a cumulation between layoffs and salary. What do you think?
I am not entirely against it, as long as it is a temporary solution. Also because the distorting effects on the market cannot be neglected either. It is necessary to start from the assumption that a worker is in redundancy either for an emergency or for a company restructuring or because his company is deceased. The way, therefore, is to ensure that these passive income supports become active. And this means investing in retraining and training. All the more so in the case of bankrupt companies because it means giving the worker a chance to reintegrate into the world of work.
Let’s move on to Citizenship Income, many are asking for a change or overcoming of the measure. Do you need a service?
Citizenship income proved to be a very important and fundamental measure, as the data confirm: in May 1.3 million families received it, we are talking about 2.9 million people in Italy. It has been so in this pandemic year and will continue to be so, unfortunately, given the level of absolute poverty in the country. Other than exceeding it, the Citizenship Income must be implemented. Let us not forget that the measure also provided for a reform and strengthening of the employment centers. We are talking about 11,600 operators who have not yet been hired, but it is the Regions that have to make the calls. And, then, the training pact must be implemented because we often find ourselves faced with people with skills gaps that must be filled. An enhancement – not only for the beneficiaries of the DRC but also for example for those who have Naspi – that I had foreseen within the Pnrr through the Employability Guarantee (Gol) and through the plan to strengthen the skills of employed and non-employed workers .
In addition to the nerve of active policies, however, repeated cases of abuse in the perception of support have also been reported. How do we put it?
Precisely because the checks are in place, abuses and illegal are identified. But beware: these certainly do not concern only this measure. On the invalidity pensions, for example, there is no shortage of false invalids. Let’s re-establish a bit of truth about the RdC: just yesterday the Undersecretary for Labor, Rossella Accoto, in the House committee explained that the reported cases are 0.003 percent of the applications accepted. This is why I keep repeating that we must not exploit.
Let’s move on to the pension reform chapter. How do you soften the staircase at Quota 100?
Let’s go step by step. First of all, the Commission on pensions should be re-established, which I had established with the social partners, the Mef and the Accounting Office and which had drawn up a document in which it collected the various hypotheses of flexibility in output. It has not yet been reconstituted and, in my opinion, it should be done immediately in order to find solutions in view of the next budget law. Which, however, at this point, must be more stable and structural.
Let’s talk about the Movement. A re-foundation is underway and there is also talk of a secretariat to support the work of the political leader. If there was the possibility to self-apply, what would you do?
I have been in the M5s for 13 years: if I can make my contribution, I will not back down. We will see, I have not thought of hypotheses of this type. My availability on issues, as it was for the Citizenship Income and as it is now on the minimum wage, is maximum.
Finally, one of the hottest issues in the M5s remains that of the extension of the double mandate. Are you in favor or not?
Giuseppe Conte stated that it is a topic that will be addressed later. I think the most important thing right now is the new phase that is opening up with him. Now we must all work for the good of the Movement.