Historian and cultural manager (Alagón, Zaragoza, 1982), Gustán has been received from nails in some sectors as commissioned by the Government for the commemoration of the 50th anniversary of the dictator’s death, and not only from the right. She defends that the program of events that coordinates under the name of ‘Spain in Libertad’ is for everyone. And also defends its opportunity in full reactionary wave.
By age, he has no experiences of the year 1975. Has he talked a lot with his surroundings about Franco’s end?
Family history and everyday stories have always been especially interested. Since childhood, I recorded my grandparents and some neighbors talking about the civil war and the dictatorship. On the transition I have also been asking, but not so much systematically. It is something that I would like to do and I think that the ‘Spain in Libertad’ project will allow us even on a large scale. It is one of the objectives: to explore that collective memory of normal people. My parents, who were young in the 70s, and who were not especially politicized, have told me about the fear and uncertainty there were.
Felipe González referred to the opening of the commemorative program, which Pedro Sánchez presided over the 8th in the Reina Sofía Museum, as “a purely party act.”
It was not and, in fact, I have no link with the PSOE. I get here from the academic and cultural world and the message I want to launch is that commemoration is open to anyone who creates in democracy and defends it; The hand is held to all political parties. In any case, it is a government project, in which the PSOE is not alone.
González also said that he did not see reasons to remember the death of the dictator. Why do you think you have to mark this round date anniversary?
As for why celebrate 1975 and not 77 or 78, as some historians are saying, we could claim enough reasons. On the one hand, at the historiographic level, there is consensus on which the transition begins in 75. Of course, on November 20 neither freedom nor democracy begins. We know that there are hundreds of dead among these years. It is a complex process in which the social movements, workers, the anti -Franco opposition in general, feminist movements, have a lot to say, and it is thanks to them that we have a more open democracy than some would have wanted. Commemorating 75 allows you to recognize those actors, say, less institutional. It is a way of not invisible things that are happening at the same time and that, in some way, build the transition. In addition, commemorating when the dictatorship or war officially ends is what is usually done in other countries. Portugal does it with April 25; in Germany, with the end of war; in France, with the end of the Nazi occupation. Democracy did not return the next day, but they are dates loaded with symbolic value.
What are the main virtues of programming that will take place in the coming months?
We want to reach many audiences and open a conversation about what democracy is, at a time when it seems that it has no good reputation as it should. We are anticipating institutional appointments to pay tribute to all those groups that were fighting from the Tardofranchism to arrive democracy, but, at the same time, we will develop other more participatory and more interactive acts, especially for the youth audience. There are exhibitions, film cycles, talks, debates … or a ‘escape room’ that we want to locate in a ‘container’ and take it through capitals of provinces. It is a program that is still under construction and we are open to proposals.
Before it began, the seriousness and independence of this set of activities had already been questioned, you had already shaved political opinions expressed years ago. Did he think his work would be so discussed, that they would go for you supervising your social networks, for example?
The truth is that we were expected. It has not surprised me and I don’t worry especially. What we have to do is the most rigorous job, the most inclusive and as participatory as possible. The objective is to know the past and spread it, pay tribute to the people who involved in the defense of freedoms and democracy; Celebrate and talk about why we are better now than 50 years ago.
What is missing for them to heal the wounds of both the civil war and the subsequent repression decades?
We lack a lot of listening process, to speak among all; Leave aside partisanship and try to understand ourselves as a society. If we manage to create dialogue spaces, commemoration will have been a success. We have a lot of knowledge because historians, political scientists or sociologists have been working on Franco for many years, and now there is a great opportunity to spread it to society. But not simply to point out what bad was Franco, but to discuss what we want in the present, what we have achieved, what kind of society we would like to develop. We lack that collective vision and with it the wounds could be better closed.
We lack a lot of listening process, to speak among all; Leave aside partisanship and try to understand ourselves as a society. If we manage to create dialogue spaces, commemoration will have been a success
Carmina Gustán
As a historian, what do you think is to know about Franco?
There has been desires to bleach the dictatorship and sell false myths of Franco as the great promoter of development or the one that made swamp and got us all water or the one that reforested the country, and when you go to the archives and you see the sources are very Easy to disassemble that. You have to disassemble myths, especially for what is happening in the networks. It is very easy to say, for example, that thanks to Franco, Valencia was not flooded with the Dana because he diverted the course of the Turia River. The other day we were with the Undersecretary of Ecological Transition and told us that the documentation explains how that dike on the outskirts of Valencia has done, in reality, is that the flood was much more violent in that other area that is around. And, on the other hand, there is also much to know about the dictatorship: we must talk about the repression of gypsies, LGTBI groups, women; Also studying the issue of seizures, that of companies that were enriched with slave labor. The academic world is already working and we have to find spaces to transmit new perspectives to society.
You are Aragonese. What do you think in your community, the Autonomous Democratic Memory Law has been repealed to replace it with a so -called “Concord Plan” in which references to Francoism and its repressive action are erased?
It seems to me a mistake and very sad. People who think that this law of democratic memory faces is that they have not read it. What he intends is to close wounds to spread, know and recognize what has been done wrong in the past. And talking about “Concordia Plan” is a falsification of the word concord and seems to me a huge setback.
He insists that the program ‘Spain in freedom’ particularly seeks young people. Have you detected a lot of ignorance about Franco?
What worries me most are surveys that say how more than 20% of young people do not see with bad eyes an authoritarian regime or does not understand why democracy is better than other political regimes. There we have to work. This goes a lot of memory, but also of present and future.
These days it is visualized very easily how the authoritarian drive is spreading. Although we handle recent concepts such as ‘technofeudalism’ to analyze reality, there are those who consider that we are being left too similar to the Europe of the 30s, before our war and the World Cup that happened it.
As a historian, I do not believe that history is repeated, but some analogies can be established. We see certain authoritarian, anti -democratic drives, which should put ourselves on alert. It is one of the things that in the commissioner team help us imagine actions and try to create meeting spaces. It is part of the responsibility we feel; If we can carry a small grain of sand in the discussion and in the construction of alternatives, we would be very happy.
Do you wait for Felipe VI in any of the acts scheduled in the coming months?
Yes, he has already confirmed his assistance to Auschwitz, to the tribute to the victims of the Holocaust, in which he had already participated in other occasions. And they have confirmed that he will participate in an act that is done in autumn about the role of the monarchy in democracy.
And to the Popular Party?
It is, of course, invited to many of these acts. He was invited to the act of January 8 at Queen Sofia. Hopefully we can collaborate and hopefully they decide to join this celebration. They have always been Adalides of the transition and of the Constitution and commemoration also goes from that.
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