Parts of the lateral thinker movement are radicalizing at great speed, which is also noticeable in Bavaria. In an interview, Interior Minister Joachim Herrmann (CSU) speaks about provocative strategies in the scene – and mistakes in politics.
Mr. Herrmann, torchlight procession, attacks on police officers, thoughts of murder: the lateral thinker scene is becoming radicalized. First signs of a major wave of violence?
Interior Minister Joachim Herrmann (CSU): In any case, we have to be very careful. The corona demonstrations had actually subsided and have increased again in the last three or four weeks parallel to the discussion about compulsory vaccination. Now you shouldn’t turn all of the participants into extremists. But some lateral thinkers are willing to use violence, right-wing extremists and Reich citizens mingle. The police have to adjust to this.
Would a de facto mandatory vaccination be a problem in terms of security policy because it increases aggression?
Hermann: We have to lead the discussion about the compulsory vaccination in a professional manner. Whether someone is ready to use force cannot be decisive for this question. But what we urgently need is more education. We have been saying for over a year across most of the democratic parties that there will be no compulsory vaccination. Now we have to explain the change in opinion to the critics.
So politics is partly to blame for the growing aggression?
Hermann: The hard core of the notorious opponents of vaccination might have gone on the barricades one way or another. However, we were mistaken in our assessment of willingness to vaccinate. At the beginning of the year we felt a huge demand as to when the vaccine would finally be available, there was a real jam during vaccination. Nobody had predicted that so many would not want to be vaccinated.
There was violence in Schweinfurt on Sunday, the demo was not registered. Will the police be taken by surprise more often in the future?
Hermann: More and more lateral thinkers nationwide are using the strategy of not registering demonstrations and declaring them to be a walk. The Bavarian police do not agree: These are not reported gatherings. They are treated accordingly by the police. The police and the Office for the Protection of the Constitution have the best possible view of the mobilization potential. More than 270 police officers were on duty in Schweinfurt.
The aggression of some of the demonstrators must have been great. What helps? Should the emergency services in principle take more rigorous action in the future?
Hermann: We have a clear operational concept that states that in such cases unregistered meetings are usually prevented. One thing is clear: we don’t want any unnecessary escalation. Therefore, we primarily rely on communication and moderation. But if organizers refuse to follow instructions and demonstrators, such as in Schweinfurt, attack police officers or want to set a patrol car on fire, then the police must intervene consistently and arrest possible perpetrators.
Your Thuringian colleague Georg Maier speaks of a “tourism” of violent demonstrators. Is he right?
Hermann: The phenomenon already existed with Pegida, now we see it with the lateral thinkers. Some of the demonstrators keep reappearing in different places, making the gatherings seem artificially larger. Among them are also violent people who deliberately provoke the police as representatives of the rule of law. I don’t want to downplay our problems, but in the last two weeks we have seen that the situation in Saxony and Thuringia is currently much more difficult than it is here.
It is currently being discussed to restrict the Telegram messenger service. Are you for it?
Hermann: We see that Telegram is very popular with lateral thinkers. But if you restrict or forbid that, these people look for other channels. To think that restricting Telegram would solve the problem does not seem obvious to me.
Terror researcher Peter Neumann fears that in the medium term the scene could run “terrorist campaigns” …
Hermann: Many demonstrate peacefully. But among the participants there are more people we know from the NPD or the “Third Way”. They are happy that they can now mix in and encourage each other. So we have to be vigilant. In any case, the police and the protection of the constitution in Bavaria are well equipped.
Interview: Marcus Mäckler
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