Justyna Wydrzynska (Warsaw, 49 years old) became a symbol of the abortion rights movement in Poland after facing up to three years in prison for sending abortion pills to an abused woman, which finally resulted in eight months of community work that has appealed. In the country with the second most restrictive legislation in the EU – only after Malta – the voluntary interruption of pregnancy has been a central issue in the recent campaign of the liberal parties, especially in the case of the conservative Civic Coalition, of Donald Tusk, and the most progressive formation, the Left.
The women’s vote has been fundamental for the victory of the liberal bloc against the ultra-conservative Law and Justice party in the elections on October 15. During the negotiations to form a Government – although President Andrzej Duda has initially entrusted this task to PiS – it has emerged, however, that one of the partners, the center-right Third Way coalition, formed by the agrarian party PSL and Polska 2050, opposes including abortion in the agreement to form an Executive. Wydrzynska, who receives EL PAÍS this Monday at the Amnesty International headquarters in Madrid — with which she collaborates on the campaign Write for rights—, is pessimistic about the possibilities of legalizing free abortion in the first trimester of pregnancy – now it is only possible in case of rape or danger to the mother’s life. The feminist movement, which now realizes—despite warnings—that Third Way has not been clear during the campaign, is “surprised and angry,” she says.
Ask. Third Way has declared that it rejects, after the elections, including the legalization of abortion in the coalition agreement.
Answer. They even said it before, during the election campaign. They didn’t actually say: “We are against the legalization of abortion,” but they used the excuse of organizing a referendum. One day we saw in Parliament [Wladyslaw] Kosiniak-Kamysz, the leader of the PSL, and we asked him: “Do you really want society to decide whether we can have an abortion or not, to decide about our bodies?” And he said, to our faces: “Yes, I want everyone to decide.” People have voted for them because they have fairly liberal solutions for the economy, health, foreign affairs policy, or education. But they are not a good option for women’s rights. [Szymon] Holownia, from Polska 2050, has been against abortion since she started in politics.
Q. What do you think will happen in the end? Donald Tusk and the Left have campaigned for the legalization of abortion.
R. Tusk said that if they won the elections they would legalize free abortion, without assumptions. What does “legalization of abortion” mean? What does it mean? Will it be legal until the 10th week, 12th, 14th, 18th? Only in hospitals, in the private sector, for surgery? Will a psychological or social report be mandatory…? There was no concrete proposal behind this. It is nothingness. But for people it is enough to hear something like that. On Wednesday the Civic Coalition called the Abortion Dream Team, together with Federa and Strajk Kobiet (Women’s Strike), to a meeting at the Sejm [la Cámara baja del Parlamento]. They want to talk to us and probably prepare some proposals.
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Q. So you think that abortion is not completely ruled out from the coalition agreement?
R. Politicians’ games are very unpleasant. Civic Coalition has to propose something so as not to seem crazy. They will propose a bill that will not go forward because it does not have enough support. And Tusk will probably say it’s his fault. [los líderes de Tercera Vía] Holownia and Kosiniak-Kamysz.
Q. What message are you going to bring to that meeting?
R. First, decriminalization is essential. Then, access to abortion must be broader. Not only through the health system, but we, as activists, should also be protected if we distribute pills, because we think we should do so if there is no legalization of abortion.
Q. What is the atmosphere in the feminist and abortion rights movement after Third Way’s position?
R. Many people are surprised, but I don’t understand why, because we had warned that the referendum proposal was an excuse. But, really, the movement is surprised. Surprised and angry.
Q. And among the general population?
R. Among my friends not involved in politics, there are those who really believe that although Third Way is talking about the referendum, in the end they are going to vote in favor of legalization. Many people see the referendum as something positive because everyone can speak, but no, only the pregnant person should decide about her own body. I would feel more satisfied if they had said: “We are against legalizing free abortion, but we want to return to the previous law.”
Q. Now there is talk of returning to the previous law, which allowed abortion in the case of fetal malformation.
R. Yes, but again right after the elections, not before. It’s horrible, they call it commitment. And in reality this is compromising women’s rights. Allow abortion for these three reasons [violación, peligro para la salud y la vida de la madre, y malformación del feto] Is it a commitment being in the EU? A compromise would be the legalization of abortion, for example, up to 10 weeks.
Q. Would that be your goal, free abortion until the 10th week?
R. For me, the goal is legalization without giving reasons until the 12th week. This is what we fought for and what we will defend. We have given a lot of confidence to politicians and they have four years to promote this law.
Q. So do you still have confidence or faith?
R. No, but I give them the opportunity to do it in four years. I know it will be difficult. But I want to see changes. I accept if they don’t legalize it. But I want to see changes in how politicians talk about abortion, how they behave, whether they protect activists.
Q. Is there a feeling of relief, that the worst, with the foreseeable end of the PiS Government, has passed?
R. No, this is not over. We have a prosecutor appointed by the president, and he can harass us with a penal code that criminalizes abortion aid. Pro-abortion organizations continue to function. And they continue to denounce us. Just two weeks ago I was at the police station and they questioned me for having given information about how to have an abortion.
Q. But giving information is legal.
R. Yes, but it depends on the Prosecutor’s Office. If the prosecutor is anti-abortion, they can start an investigation. This is not over.
Q. In short, the parties have campaigned on abortion. And it worked, because they won.
R. And now there will be no legalization of abortion.
Q. There is hope?
R. (Thinks for a moment and snorts) No, there is no hope.
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