Lars Klingbeil speaks in the Merkur interview about the Russia course in the SPD and possible arms deliveries to Ukraine.
Munich – Before the visit to Germany by US Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin on Thursday and the international consultations of Ukraine supporters in Ramstein on Friday, SPD leader Lars Klingbeil is stepping on the brakes in the face of many calls for further arms deliveries. “We have done a lot to support Ukraine since the Russian attack on February 24,” said Klingbeil in an interview with the Munich Mercury. It is clear that Germany must examine every day with its partners how Ukraine can continue to be supported. But that is “always a weighing process that you should think about for a few days,” said the SPD leader.
Mr. Klingbeil, it is said that you declined when it came to the successor to Defense Minister Christine Lambrecht. Did you have jitters before the ejection seat ministry?
When deciding on the successor, one question was important to us: What is best for the future of our Bundeswehr? In this historic situation, a minister is needed who is 100 percent committed to the huge task of reorganizing the Bundeswehr at the turning point. Boris Pistorius will do just that now. And I will fully support him as party leader of the SPD. I made a conscious decision to take up this post a little over a year ago, and I still have a lot planned.
What does he have to do differently than his predecessor?
Christine Lambrecht has already initiated good things that Boris Pistorius is now continuing. With him, an interior minister from Lower Saxony who is highly respected across party lines and knows the security structure of our state very well will take office. In more than ten years he has shown that he is crisis-tested. He shows the troops the respect they need and he has the assertiveness to initiate the necessary reforms.
Defense Commissioner Eva Högl (SPD) recently called for the Bundeswehr special fund to be tripled to 300 billion euros. Didn’t it leave you speechless?
I am rarely at a loss for language. We have just taken a giant step with the special fund of 100 billion euros. At the same time, the Bundeswehr’s problems are not only about a lack of money, but also about inefficient structures. In the armaments industry there are far too many so-called gold-edge solutions – that means: high costs and special production methods. The system has to change. Before we call for more money, we need to become more efficient.
Diplomacy in the Ukraine war: “If a war is to end, you have to talk to each other”
Ukraine supporters will meet in Ramstein on Friday, the main focus will be on battle tanks. Can you think of another argument why Germany should not deliver?
Above all, we should stick to Chancellor Olaf Scholz’s line of not speculating publicly about it. What I can say: We have done a lot to support Ukraine since the Russian attack on February 24th. We have broken the principle of not supplying weapons to war zones. We have delivered rocket launchers, Gepard anti-aircraft tanks, the Iris-T defense system – and now Marder infantry fighting vehicles are following. This is always a weighing process that you should think about for a few days. It is clear to me that we must seriously examine with our partners every day how we can continue to support Ukraine. When I talk to the people in the country, I rarely hear the question of when the next tank will finally be delivered – more often the concern that we will be actively drawn into the war.
With his cautious line of arms, the chancellor struck a chord with many Germans, but at the same time he annoyed Germany’s partners abroad. How does that fit with the claim to take on a leading role in Europe?
The fact that all eyes on these issues are always directed towards Germany shows our importance. However, I am opposed to basing our leadership role on individual weapon systems. The fact that the European Council follows the Chancellor in his declaration of intent to admit Ukraine into the EU is a sign of leadership. The fact that Olaf Scholz flies to Beijing and takes China to our side on the issue of the nuclear threat is leadership. Clever leadership that takes others along is convincing.
Do you currently see any starting point for diplomacy with Moscow?
There have already been diplomatic results. We have a grain deal, there were prisoner exchanges. And if a war is to end, you have to talk to each other. That doesn’t mean accepting what Putin is doing. I say clearly: our goal must be that Russia disappears from the areas of Ukraine again. Achieving this requires military strength vis-à-vis Russia and, at the right moment, diplomacy. Ukraine can rely on us for this, and our support will continue unreservedly.
SPD too close to Russia? “We believed for too long that things would be fine with Putin”
For a long time, the SPD had an attitude problem towards Russia. You have announced that you will work on this. How’s it going?
We’re right in the middle. I have made it very clear where I see the mistakes of the past in dealing with Russia. Not everyone in the SPD liked that either. For too long we believed that things would work out with Putin, and we made ourselves dependent on the energy supply. The SPD is working on that – that would do other parties good too.
Former Chancellor Angela Merkel does not believe that she has done anything wrong.
Mrs. Merkel and the Union must answer that for themselves. The public will judge. I can only speak for the SPD.
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